First pistol/carbine combo - whats the best deal?

Suther

Suther

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Location
Fraser Valley
So I have my restricted licence, and Im going to get a range membership in the new year. Which means I need to get a handgun. I also want to get a pistol-caliber carbine later, and I want to get something with some synergy (same caliber/mags) and Im trying to figure out my options.

Price is a major concern, but wont be the sole deciding factor... So lets go through my potential options.


Girsan Regard/Chiappa M1-9mm ~$1100
I hear good things about the Girsan, being a Turkish beretta clone and all. On the other hand, I've read through nearly 40 pages of people being less than impressed with the M1-9. Some are reliable right out the box, some are reliable with some tinkering, and some are just unreliable it seems. But the M1-9 is unrestricted, which is a big plus.

Hi Power Pistol and Carbine ~$700
Cheapest option. Carbine is restricted. Can't get a 9mm pistol, which leaves me picking between 40 and 45. Warranty is top-notch.

Glock17/19 or Girsan Regard/Keltec Sub2000 ~$1200-1400
Takes glock mags or beretta mags, so it gives me more options to get exactly what I want (whatever that may happen to be.) Sub2000 is NR, and reliable. But I hear you really have to squish your face down on the stock for a good sight picture, and mounting an optic would defeat the folding aspect of it (Although I wouldn't be buying it for its fold-ability anyways)

357 Alfa Proj Revolver/357 mag lever action rifle ~$1100
Not semi autos anymore, but they are the same caliber, so thats half-way there. Lever rifle is NR. Its a revolver, there is just something special about them. Allows for cheap 38spl and more powerful 357 from the same guns, which aids in cost/fun factor.

I dont want to spend $1000+ on a carbine, so a JR or Theron Defense is out.

Have I missed anything? What are you guys' opinions on the matter?
 
The .357 magnum revolver and lever action rifle is going to be the most fun, and is a more traditional combination. If you hunt the .357 is considerably more useful as well, I have taken deer with it.

I just recently got my R92 stainless in .357 "race ready" and boy working the action with one finger is sure a good feeling.
 
Red lion forend on the sub 2000. Optics and folding.

The leverage would be fun, I am looking for a .357 lever gun right now too.

Don't forget the cx4 from beretta. It is more money but you can use your pistol mags
Plus if you get beretta 96 mags, you get 13 rounds of 9mm legally.

The last option I could think of would be get a glock/sig/etc, and a kpos kit for it.
You lose the two guns fun factor, but you get a really cool PDW for not a lot of cash.

P1020830-adjusted.jpg
 
Me personally, I've been doing some light research on the RONI carbine conversion kits for Glock, SIG, and CZ. I just bought my first gun in a Walther PPX, and unfortunately, there is no carbine add-on for it. But for my 2nd purchase, I am still debating on a Glock 17/19/34, Norinco NP22/SIG P226, or M&P ported. The carbine add-ons are very intriguing to me as you just slap it on the pistol and voila. And you only have to worry about 1 gun instead of 2 guns. 1 mag instead of 2 mags. And reliability will not be an issue.
 
Yannow what I want?

I want that HK MP5 in 45 ACP. Or that slick little Beretta carbine. Who do I have to blow to get a good tactical street legal .45 ACP carbine? That HK UMP or whatever it is looks like something by Fisher Price and that Thureon Defense thing looks boring. (No offense to you guys that have them, my objection to them is strictly on looks and not on merit. They just aren't my cup of tea).

And another thing - I don't appreciate you guys posting all those pics of those pistol/carbine conversions either! Now I want one of those too! :(
 
.357 magnum, as you noted you can save some money with ammunition using 38 special, and still it will take down a deer or a bear. You can get something used in a handgun that’s a lot nicer than the Alfa Project Revolver. I also wouldn’t be afraid of a used lever action from Marlin, Chiappa, or Rossi.
 
Here are my 2 or trio I guess, Girsan Regard and Beretta CX-4, my CX-4 is restricted, but also a lot cheaper than the current non restricted at $790.00




Added a Vortex Strikefire, Crimson Trace laser, Fenix 400 Lumen LED and Black Hawk Front Grip

Or my Kel Tec Sub 2000 which also uses the Beretta 92 mags. I added the stock extender and lower rail which I have a Crimson Trace laser on it. Regular Optics are a pain to add to the Kel Tec, so I decided to keep it simple and compact



The CX-4 is a much better carbine than the Kel Tec. My CX-4 shoots virtually any load including cast loads very well where the Kel Tec is fussy and needs pretty hot loads to cycle reliably.
 
Any problem with the sub2000 using factory loads, or just when using reloads?

If it was a bit cheaper, the CX-4 would be a contender, but I just can't afford it (being this is something I need to save up for anyways, while still being a poor student)

Im actually surprised at how many people like the 357 combo idea. I figured more people would be supporters of the semi-auto side of things.

And nobody has anything to say about the hipoints?
 
I would also vote for a pair of .357's. Might as well get a useful rifle out of the pairing. The small carbines can be somewhat underwhelming in 9mm, but a stout .357 load means business and can easily be used to push bush for deer.
 
mikeyb said:
I would also vote for a pair of .357's. Might as well get a useful rifle out of the pairing. The small carbines can be somewhat underwhelming in 9mm, but a stout .357 load means business and can easily be used to push bush for deer.
Click to expand...

Im not really looking for a hunting rifle, or even a useful rifle, per say. I have a 303, a 270, and an SKS, so I have what I need to take out game animals if I want. This is really more about shooting cans, or gongs, or whatever. Maybe for small game too, Coyote and smaller sorta thing, which I think a 9mm would be sufficient for, right? For a carbine, I'd much rather a .40, but I would also like a handgun I can use to get into IPSC or 3-gun or something, and thats why I lean towards the 9mm caliber over others.

I've been watching some youtube stuff like NOIR about freestyle shooting competitions, and I want to do something like that with some friends - I know of areas I can set up things of this sort, so its really a matter of having the right guns for it. Yeah, I can use my SKS or bolt action rifles for this sort of thing, and I plan on doing just that, but a semi-auto with 10 round clips and a three or four magazines allows for a wide variety of challenges/scenarios. That said, I could just as well use a lever action to do this sort of thing - as long as everyone uses the same gun we're all on a level playing field after all.

Obviously the pistol will be a range toy, and for the most part, so will the carbine. Still, I hate the idea of having a restricted gun in something that could otherwise be unrestricted, so unless its a handgun or an AR, I would much prefer it to be non-res. Especially considering price... I see no point in buying a restricted pistol carbine for $600+ when I could get a Norinco AR for the same or less.
 
I hope you find what you are looking for, you have some good advice here.

I strongly suggest you save that little bit more and grab the NR CX4. It is by far the best quality of the list.

I find the Theron and JRC to be just AR wannabe, if you want AR ergonomics buy an AR... You will eventually anyway.

The CX4 is ergonomic comfortable, reliable, and looks damn ###y in my opinion.
 
My first rifle/handgun combo was with 10mm Colt Delta Elite - Glock 20 & 29 and now a Kimber with an 18" T/C Contender carbine barrel.

I now also have 45 Colt and 454 Casull combo's.
 
Suther said:
Im not really looking for a hunting rifle, or even a useful rifle, per say. I have a 303, a 270, and an SKS, so I have what I need to take out game animals if I want. This is really more about shooting cans, or gongs, or whatever. Maybe for small game too, Coyote and smaller sorta thing, which I think a 9mm would be sufficient for, right? For a carbine, I'd much rather a .40, but I would also like a handgun I can use to get into IPSC or 3-gun or something, and thats why I lean towards the 9mm caliber over others.

I've been watching some youtube stuff like NOIR about freestyle shooting competitions, and I want to do something like that with some friends - I know of areas I can set up things of this sort, so its really a matter of having the right guns for it. Yeah, I can use my SKS or bolt action rifles for this sort of thing, and I plan on doing just that, but a semi-auto with 10 round clips and a three or four magazines allows for a wide variety of challenges/scenarios. That said, I could just as well use a lever action to do this sort of thing - as long as everyone uses the same gun we're all on a level playing field after all.

Obviously the pistol will be a range toy, and for the most part, so will the carbine. Still, I hate the idea of having a restricted gun in something that could otherwise be unrestricted, so unless its a handgun or an AR, I would much prefer it to be non-res. Especially considering price... I see no point in buying a restricted pistol carbine for $600+ when I could get a Norinco AR for the same or less.
Click to expand...

I have limited experience but from the ones I've shot, the 9mm carbines are underwhelming. Not very accurate nor reliable. The killing potential is there for coyotes but you would have to be fairly close.
 
I've shot a variety of carbines.

What I discovered is that the JR and Kel-Tec both "rattle" a lot. By this I mean that they aren't very smooth so when the bolt cycles back and forth it reflects into the shooter's shoulder. What this does is make either gun feel like it's recoiling more than it really does. And for sport plinking this actually makes the guns more fun to shoot.

I've also shot the Beretta and an HK carbine. Both are so smooth that there isn't enough "o's" in "smooth" to describe them. They make shooting 9mm feel like you're shooting a .22. Now if you're using such guns in a rapid fire match this is a really good thing since it allows you to put more rounds on target in smaller groups and do it all more quickly. But for range plinking it makes the experience feel very underwhelming.

.357Mag from a Rossi 92 will feel like you're shooting a serious rifle. And with .38Spl you're back to very light recoil. Depending on your loads it's as light or only a bit heavier than the feel of a rimfire rifle.

One note on the Rossi. Since you're looking at budget options I'm guessing that you'd go with Rossi just due to the cost. Fair warning though. The action can be a little rough and stiff as delivered. Over time it'll shoot itself into smoother operation. But most of the time they come out of the box just begging for a spring kit and some minor slicking up work. The good news is that with the $25 spring kit for these rifles they turn into great guns that make you want to shoot them or just cycle the action more.

They also tend to jam with the shorter .38Spl rounds if you try to cycle them too fast. But with a slight pause with the lever forward they settle down. But for really fast "cowboy shooting" you will want to use .357Mag casings. You'll also want to get into reloading or the cost of .357Mag ammo will quickly break your bank account.

The finish that comes on the Rossi wood is also pretty pathetic looking. Two that I worked on for some friends recently got the craptastic finish sanded off and re-done in a reddish brown stain and polymerized tung oil to come out a whole world better looking.

Of the build quality of the semi auto carbines the Beretta is as good as the name would suggest. The Kel-Tec is a plastic marvel but I don't trust that the main hinge and catch are all plastic. The JR is a large gun and feels like it.

The one I'd likely buy if I were buying is the slim and catchy looking Thureon Defense carbine with the smaller barrel shroud. I have not shot one yet. I've only handled one in a gun store. But it's got a really good feel to it and is sized more in scale with a handgun round and in relation to what the name "carbine" suggests.
 
Daver_II said:
I hope you find what you are looking for, you have some good advice here.

I strongly suggest you save that little bit more and grab the NR CX4. It is by far the best quality of the list.

I find the Theron and JRC to be just AR wannabe, if you want AR ergonomics buy an AR... You will eventually anyway.

The CX4 is ergonomic comfortable, reliable, and looks damn ###y in my opinion.
Click to expand...

^This! Save up or do a lay-away like I did. You will not regret it.

IMG_0349.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom