1911 Hand Cannon :The 460 Rowland

The .45-08 is just cut down .308 that has been machined inside to allow a bullet to seat, I'm thinking everything back of the bullet is stronger then typical pistol brass.
45%2008%20%202.jpg
 
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Source http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm


---------------------------- Std ACP----- +P----- Super----- Rowland
Primer Pocket Depth------ 0.116----- 0.121----- 0.124----- 0.124
Web Thickness------------ 0.067----- 0.059----- 0.074----- 0.054
Case Head to Web--------- 0.185----- 0.185----- 0.195----- 0.178
Overall Case Length------ 0.886----- 0.894----- 0.896----- 0.956


Std ACP ----- +P ----- Super ----- Rowland

csecmpral45.jpg
 
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Can-down said:
Gunnar from Armco used to sell it. I'd think it wouldn't be too hard for a machine shop to make some.
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I will be doing just that myself and will post the procedure and my results some time in February. I'll be making 45-08 brass and comparing it to 45 ACP, 45 +P, and 45 Super concering weight and powder capacity.

45-08 brass is far stronger about the base than 45 ACP, 45 +P, 45 Super, or 460 Rowland, but has less capacity as a result.
 
Can-down said:
Source http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm


---------------------------- Std ACP----- +P----- Super----- Rowland
Primer Pocket Depth------ 0.116----- 0.121----- 0.124----- 0.124
Web Thickness------------ 0.067----- 0.059----- 0.074----- 0.054
Case Head to Web--------- 0.185----- 0.185----- 0.195----- 0.178
Overall Case Length------ 0.886----- 0.894----- 0.896----- 0.956


Std ACP ----- +P ----- Super ----- Rowland

csecmpral45.jpg
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That's great info Can-down. Thanks.

If the Rowland is running at 40,000 it suggests that the 45 Super case might be able to handle much more than it's 28,000 spec.
 
Andy said:
I will be doing just that myself and will post the procedure and my results some time in February. I'll be making 45-08 brass and comparing it to 45 ACP, 45 +P, and 45 Super concering weight and powder capacity.

45-08 brass is far stronger about the base than 45 ACP, 45 +P, 45 Super, or 460 Rowland, but has less capacity as a result.
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Great!
I look forward to your findings.
 
So this whole 460 thing seems like a farce at this point....compared to 45/08.
A barrel you don't need, brass that is longer but weaker even then .45acp brass....
Sure prepping .308 brass will take some time, but will save you over $400, give better performance, and greater safety with stronger brass
 
Hitzy said:
So this whole 460 thing seems like a farce at this point....compared to 45/08.
A barrel you don't need, brass that is longer but weaker even then .45acp brass....
Sure prepping .308 brass will take some time, but will save you over $400, give better performance, and greater safety with stronger brass
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That's the way I see it, and that's the way I'm going.

However - for your $400, you do get a muzzle brake (although if it's not an integral part of the barrel it loses a lot of efficiency) and the possibility of using factory ammo (if you can find it).
 
Hitzy said:
So this whole 460 thing seems like a farce at this point....compared to 45/08.
A barrel you don't need, brass that is longer but weaker even then .45acp brass....
Sure prepping .308 brass will take some time, but will save you over $400, give better performance, and greater safety with stronger brass
Click to expand...

not sure where your getting your info there bro, but ill let you do the testing.
me, im gonna use the 460 brass, im too pretty to have a slide cave my face in just because some internet warrior said so.

The 460 ROWLAND has external dimensions identical to the .45 ACP case with the exception of length. The 460 case is approximately 1/16th an inch longer (460 ROWLAND case length is .957 in.) than the .45 ACP case to prevent chambering in an unmodified .45 ACP gun with safety as a prime consideration. Internally, the 460 ROWLAND case is much stronger than the .45 ACP case with an entirely different design and pressure capacity. Loading information for the 460 should NEVER!!!! be interchanged or substituted in .45 ACP cases
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What then is a .460 Rowland? It is simply a .45 ACP case that has been stretched and strengthened. Starline is making the brass, head stamped ".460 ROWLAND", that is 1/16 of an inch longer than the standard .45 ACP (standard .45 ACP reloading dies work) with a beefed up interior.
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i dont know, that says to me its beefier.
when your dealing with pressures around 40,000 im gonna take the safe route and use the brass and barrels intended for them.
 
wayupnorth said:
not sure where your getting your info there bro, but ill let you do the testing.
me, im gonna use the 460 brass, im too pretty to have a slide cave my face in just because some internet warrior said so.


i dont know, that says to me its beefier.
when your dealing with pressures around 40,000 im gonna take the safe route and use the brass and barrels intended for them.
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Uhhh did you not see the picture CanDown posted showing the sectioned cases? Just a few posts up there....
Just observation, if you want to run a hot .45, the 45/08 seems to be the smarter and safer way to do it. I guess .308 brass could be cut down for the 460 as well....
 
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im sure CanDown's measuring is fine.
i just find it hard to believe that several companies would all state the same thing and it not be right.
theres a word for that..... fraud.
i dont think all these companies would states that their web was thicker and the cases thicker then not do it, maybe CanDown got a bad case?
i have no idea.
but as a fella who is just getting into reloading im gonna choose to stick to what the manufacturer says.

actually i wonder if i shoot Starline a email if they would weigh in on this.
would be interesting to know right from the manufacturer.
 
So this whole 460 thing seems like a farce at this point....compared to 45/08.
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I just want to hear from someone first hand, who has actually loaded to real .44-Magnum levels.

A normal load for me is a 240 grain bullet, with 12 grains of Unique powder.

That's what I want to see in a Rowland conversion, before I buy into any hype.
 
Personally, I have run 200grn LSWC at 1500 fps out of a 5" barrel 1911 (Canadian Para Ordnance P14-LTD) with a schuemann bull barrel. .308 Win cases (Winchester brass). CCI Primers, Longshot Powder. Very stout... only problem I had was a weak mag release spring that would cause the mag to drop. LOL replaced with new spring and never had a problem. This seems to be right at the limit.
 
freedompro said:
Personally, I have run 200grn LSWC at 1500 fps out of a 5" barrel 1911 (Canadian Para Ordnance P14-LTD) with a schuemann bull barrel. .308 Win cases (Winchester brass). CCI Primers, Longshot Powder. Very stout... only problem I had was a weak mag release spring that would cause the mag to drop. LOL replaced with new spring and never had a problem. This seems to be right at the limit.
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That's definitely moving. What weight of recoil spring are you using when shooting those loads? I assume you aren't running a comp.
Kristian
 
I finally made it to the range for our local IPSC practice night tonight, and brought the Rowland along to try. I only had a chance for one mag between rounds, but it shoots really nice. I've never shot a comped handgun before, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I flinched big time on the first shot and pulled it about 14" low, but the rest were in about a 4" group, shooting pretty quickly at 12 meters. I can do better than that while taking my time, but I was in IPSC mode. I need to drift the rear sight a bit to center up, but elevation was good. I couldn't believe how soft it shoots, it really didn't feel much different than my other 1911 (200 grain plated at 925, 45 acp). I had the same bullets loaded for the Rowland, with 13 grains Long Shot, about 1350 fps according to the data on Realguns website, or a bit over 1400 fps according to Hogdon's online data. Here's a picture, with a windage adjustment, they would all have been A hits.
IMG_20150128_203051.jpg

This is the first time this particular Norc has been fired, so it may need a bit of tuning. The slide didn't lock back on the last round, but it fed good. The primers on the brass definitely get flattened out a bit compared to a 45 acp load. I'm really looking forward to shooting this thing more
Kristian
 
i was chatting with my dad yesterday, while he hasnt gotten any 460Rowland rounds yet he did take the gun to the range and put a box of 45 through the conversion kit just to make sure it was cycling and such.
he said he noticed a big difference with the Rownland comp on the 1911.
said it made the 45 very soft to shoot.
he did have some trouble with the spring not letting the slide go back all the way so was getting some problems with that, but those cleared out once he changed the spring back to a lighter one.
will be interesting to try the full power 460Rowland rounds eventually once i get all this reloading stuff in and get busy making some.
 
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