Hunting/bush shooting with an antique handgun: Law vs experience

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drumstyx

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Ok, so I know technically, this shouldn't be an issue, but in light of some anecdotes I've heard, apparently it can be.

First and foremost: IS THIS LEGAL? I would contend that yes, it is. The law, as written seems to support this.

What are your experiences with Johnny Law though? One member has contacted me mentioning being arrested and having his firearm seized. How can this be avoided? Would an RCMP letter confirming antique status be enough? Can you sue for damages in the event of such a wrongful arrest?

Anyway, bottom line: What are your experiences shooting antique handguns NOT on a range?
 
More details on the member being arrested and having his firearm seized would be helpful. What was he doing at the time? Did he have any documentation supporting its antique status and documentation showing what the law says? What exactly was he arrested for? Was his antique released once the police realized they had unlawfully seized it? Was he 'pushing the line' when it comes to what he is permitted to do?
 
What exactly would "pushing the line" be? As I understand it, an antique is exactly like a non-restricted for discharge, bush carry, hunting, etc.

Regardless of how it goes down, I'm sure it would be at the cost of many thousands in legal fees (as before, what recourse does one have for such a situation?)

I have no doubt that it could go down like this. The police are notoriously misinformed, and the CFOs, as we all know, are notorious for making up their own law.

Edited for confidentiality
 
A cop told me that an antique is only an antique as long as it's unloaded. If it's loaded it is a handgun, even worse when it is concealed. I have read here the same what you are mentioning, about being similar to a non restricted. I don't believe that since you cannot conceal a non restricted rifle, that's why they are non restricted, right?
 
fritzhanzel said:
A cop told me that an antique is only an antique as long as it's unloaded. If it's loaded it is a handgun, even worse when it is concealed. I have read here the same what you are mentioning, about being similar to a non restricted. I don't believe that since you cannot conceal a non restricted rifle, that's why they are non restricted, right?
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That would make sense if there were laws differentiating types of discharge, handgun vs long gun, and there aren't. The only thing preventing you from discharging a restricted anywhere but a range is the transport regulations, which don't apply to antiques.

Of course, for other areas of the law it's still a firearm. You'd still get armed robbery charges, but you get that with an airsoft gun even.
 
drumstyx said:
What exactly would "pushing the line" be? As I understand it, an antique is exactly like a non-restricted for discharge, bush carry, hunting, etc.
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This subject has been flogged to death and back again. An example might be carrying an uncased, unloaded, non-restricted rifle or antique down the street over to your neighbour's house. Legal, but dumb. Get's people nervous. Bottom Line: know the law, used discretion to avoid getting people nervous, and carry your documentation with you. Use opportunities to educate people when appropriate. If you happen to run into a LEO, be respectful and ask them if you can present your documentation. I've not run into problems in the remote wilderness and don't plan to, but I have come through customs several times with antique handguns. Before I say the word 'gun' I have documentation coming out the car window. Documentation right up front really helps.
 
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Win 38-55 said:
This subject has been flogged to death and back again. An example might be carrying an uncased, unloaded, non-restricted rifle or antique down the street over to your neighbour's house. Legal, but dumb. Get's people nervous. Bottom Line: know the law, used discretion to avoid getting people nervous, and carry your documentation with you. Use opportunities to educate people when appropriate. If you happen to run into a LEO, be respectful and ask them if you can present your documentation. I've not run into problems in the remote wilderness and don't plan to, but I have come through customs several times with antique handguns. Before I say the word 'gun' I have documentation coming out the car window. Documentation right up front really helps.
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When you say 'customs' I assume that's not US to Canada? I was under the impression that exporting even antique handguns is a huge pain in the ass...
 
fritzhanzel said:
A cop told me that an antique is only an antique as long as it's unloaded. If it's loaded it is a handgun, even worse when it is concealed. I have read here the same what you are mentioning, about being similar to a non restricted. I don't believe that since you cannot conceal a non restricted rifle, that's why they are non restricted, right?
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Another absolutely retarded post from fritzhanzel. Keep up the good work.
 
Personally I think that pushing the envelope on antique status handgun carry may eventually result in closing the loopholes allowing these handguns to be non registered. Like .38/55 says, use your head regardless of whether you are "legal" or not. it makes folks nervous. RCMP officers in particular who seem to be perpetually ignorant of many of the gun laws they are supposed to be aware of. Also I would be wary of telling a conservation officer you are hunting with a handgun as that is not mentioned in our provincial game laws.
 
The current situation does not exist because of intent on the part of legislators and regulators.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
 
I'm still trying to figure out what the charge would be as they have to have a lawful offence to refer to from some Act or reg.

My strategy would be to have it holstered open carry and have a paper target. If asked I'd say I'm looking for a decent backstop. If I'm already shooting I'd ask if they want to pop off a few rounds. :)
 
THX1139 said:
I'm still trying to figure out what the charge would be as they have to have a lawful offence to refer to from some Act or reg.

My strategy would be to have it holstered open carry and have a paper target. If asked I'd say I'm looking for a decent backstop. If I'm already shooting I'd ask if they want to pop off a few rounds. :)
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Pushing the line would be carrying or shooting where you are likely to see other people. Even though you may be legal in carrying and shooting in that location, most people are not aware that it is legal and many of those would probably call the police. To many calls to the various police agencies and the RCMP will act to prohibit carrying and shooting antique handguns in locations where not restricted guns can be carried and shot. Not terribly different from shooting in gravel pits or similar locations close to town or close to well travelled roads. It attracts negative attention

cheers mooncoon
 
There are laws differentiating types of discharge. Restricted can be discharge ONLY on an approved range. The CC of C talks about weapons. It doesn't mention restricted or otherwise under the possession offences or carrying provisions. Doesn't talk about discharging either.
This is what the CC of C says.
"...14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation..."
 
sunray said:
There are laws differentiating types of discharge. Restricted can be discharge ONLY on an approved range. The CC of C talks about weapons. It doesn't mention restricted or otherwise under the possession offences or carrying provisions. Doesn't talk about discharging either.
This is what the CC of C says.
"...14. (1) An individual may store, display or transport an antique firearm only if it is unloaded.
(2) An individual may transport an antique firearm in an unattended vehicle only if
(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and
(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the antique firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the antique firearm, is securely locked.
(3) An individual may transport an antique firearm that is a handgun only if it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation..."
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None of this addresses the use of antique handguns.
 
Here's the issue - most people you'll meet in the woods won't know antique laws, so you'll need to read them and carry the appropriate paperwork to back yourself up. Having read the laws and the interpretations, you'll understand that it's relatively clear cut and that it's been rehashed quite a few times on this forum and others. Background reading on previous threads will answer most questions. There should still be a sticky at the top discussing carrying an antique. If you haven't read the regulations yourself then don't think about taking an antique in the woods - there's so much misinformation that 90% of "Some guy told me...." is wrong and will land you in hot water.

The stickies have all the info there is on antique law, regulations and technicalities from province to province.
 
tiriaq said:
None of this addresses the use of antique handguns.
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In SOR-98-209 following the rules to transport antiques, this is the next reg.

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.
 
drumstyx said:
When you say 'customs' I assume that's not US to Canada? I was under the impression that exporting even antique handguns is a huge pain in the ass...
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It is not. You just send as any other item. It may be held by customs for a week or two, but will be released when status is confirmed.
 
wbaad said:
It is not. You just send as any other item. It may be held by customs for a week or two, but will be released when status is confirmed.
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Proviso being you've done your homework and things are kosher - more than a few people have taken a leap and found out their antique isn't proven to be an antique - the CFC doesn't allow antique status unless there's published documentation, they don't accept internet publications or prior antique status letters. Just CYA
 
THX1139 said:
In SOR-98-209 following the rules to transport antiques, this is the next reg.

15. An individual may load a firearm or handle a loaded firearm only in a place where the firearm may be discharged in accordance with all applicable Acts of Parliament and of the legislature of a province, regulations made under such Acts, and municipal by-laws.
Click to expand...

And nothing here precludes the discharge of an antique handgun, any more than it precludes the discharge of a non-restricted firearm.
 
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