Production gun modifications IPSC

I wouldn't think it's out of the realm of possibilities, that some folks modify their triggers in a production gun and don't say anything. Personally, I think a trigger job is a modification that should be allowed regardless, I agree it's impossible to police at a match, so take it off the table as a variable, most competitors will not shoot up to the level of their gear anyway.

If you bought a gun that you loved, but it had a crappy trigger, you would, (or I would), get a trigger job... and keep shooting the gun. M&P anyone...
 
Suther said:
A broken spring is legal, but trimming your spring isn't. But there is no way to tell the difference without pulling the gun apart, and even then...

Little things like that. It would be way to time-consuming to inspect everyones guns internally, so it is up to the competitor to be on the up and up...

And well, we know how some people like every little bit of help they can get. (Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, A.Rod.... ect ect) So even if they DID inspect guns internally, there would still be cheaters.

Sadly, there isn't much you can do about it, there will always be someone trying to cheat, whether its through exploiting the system or just outright cheating. (Which of course there will always be both of them around...)
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I was running as my buddies mechanic at the track (his son was racing the 125 CBR class). After qualifying and or winning, the top 3-5 bikes were tech inspected. if you were caught with an aftermarket air filter for exaple (a part that could be inspected in a few minutes on a motorcycle) you were sent to the back of the pack if it was a qualifier, with a cash fine, and if it was a race, you were DQ'd.

ive never got into modifying pistols, so i dont know much about aftermarket internal parts. Would it not be in the best interest of the orgs to inspect the top few? cant take that long to pull apart a gun, measure the trigger pull etc?
 
That's part of why i switched to classic, i now mod my 1911 however the heck i want, as long as it fits the box, no comp, no red dot, no slide lightening. The rest is mine to mod away...

Edit ; i had to put this in, yes there is a little more to it than what i just mentionned before someone points it out
 
raks said:
As a certified RO, you do have to worry about what all the competitors do to their guns.
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Yes but only when I am acting in an official capacity as match R.O. When I am not Ro'ing or just a competitor in the squad, it would be unsportsmanlike to say anything about another competitor's equipment.
 
Fast Toys said:
Yes but only when I am acting in an official capacity as match R.O. When I am not Ro'ing or just a competitor in the squad, it would be unsportsmanlike to say anything about another competitor's equipment.
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Agreed.

But one of the obligations as an RO is "help the competitor achieve their goals". If I'm competing and I see a gear issue I will point it out to the fellow competitor and suggest he deal with it. But I wouldn't (normally) say anything to the operating match officials.
 
crash277 said:
I was running as my buddies mechanic at the track (his son was racing the 125 CBR class). After qualifying and or winning, the top 3-5 bikes were tech inspected. if you were caught with an aftermarket air filter for exaple (a part that could be inspected in a few minutes on a motorcycle) you were sent to the back of the pack if it was a qualifier, with a cash fine, and if it was a race, you were DQ'd.

ive never got into modifying pistols, so i dont know much about aftermarket internal parts. Would it not be in the best interest of the orgs to inspect the top few? cant take that long to pull apart a gun, measure the trigger pull etc?
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The other problem is knowing what to look for. You would need to know how to take the gun apart, check whatever you wanted, and then put it back together. That is a lot of knowledge the ROs would be required to have, especially once you get into things like determining if something is just wear and tear or if its something thats been modified with some light stoning or something, or having to decide if a spring is broken or has been cut on purpose.

Bikes it is pretty easy. Everyone has practically the same bike, and they all function in practically the same way. Guns are not nearly as streamlined. If there was a GLOCK-only class, then it would be possible, but until every gun is 95% the same as the next one (it seems we're getting there with glock clones... lol) you can't really expect a RO - especially if hes a volunteer - to be deciding on whats legal or not internally on a gun.

And for the bikes, I would compare checking the internals of the guns to being more like checking to see if a bike has the right pistons, than the air filter.
 
1riot1ranger said:
Agreed.

But one of the obligations as an RO is "help the competitor achieve their goals". If I'm competing and I see a gear issue I will point it out to the fellow competitor and suggest he deal with it. But I wouldn't (normally) say anything to the operating match officials.
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Agree with you as well. There is a big difference between helping someone and looking for a way to DQ or penalize someone.
 
Suther said:
The other problem is knowing what to look for.
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You are bang on. There is no way match officials can 100 % know what has been modified or differentiate between an OEM part and and aftermarket one. What is wear and tear and what is polishing the action? What happens when your 100,000 round mainspring had dropped from 13 lbs to 8? That is why I think they should just state the minimum trigger pull (which is easy to test) and not worry about what else was done inside the gun. That is currently what USPSA does for production class. We went way off topic here of course! I hope the OP got the advice he needed.

I also compete in motorsports and they have the same issues for the "stock" type classes. Often the motors are "spec" and sealed to prevent tampering. Still, stretching the rules goes on and some would argue that is cheating while others would say it is being competitive. I've been to motorsports events where competitors looked over each others vehicles with a fine toothed comb and complained to officials if a plastic trim screw was missing. I used to get worked up over that until I discovered there are open classes there too and the competitors are far more relaxed and having a good time. That turned out to be the right place for me as well but to each their own.
 
My understanding, as expressed by the source of all frustrating rules, is that production exists to force manufacturers to produce pistols that don't suck out of the box. It has nothing to do with carry gear, just that you don't have to immediately chuck all the internals to make it usable. It has worked, except that the same dark lord has disallowed Glock's efforts to produce a competition pistol. I can feel a bit of creep in my shadow trigger, but not enough to buy a competition hammer. I certainly suck too hard to notice at speed. Maybe when I eventually have to do a detail strip I will put the parts down on some emery cloth and let nature take its course, but by then everything will be polished anyways.
 
I have a question regarding magazines. I would like to paint the baseplates of my Glock magazines to make them easier to identify and also number to identify them for malfunction reasons. I read the rules for production, and 16.2 says " Identifying marks or decals, ... are permitted". However, I don't know if this means painting the baseplate a solid colour. Any help would be much appreciated!
 
I have changed the grips to thin aluminum in my SP-01 simply because I have small hands and the big rubber grips are just too big. I was told that this is allowed providing they don't add more weight to the gun. I haven't had anyone tell me different.
 
Aftermarket grips (factory profile), sights, mags, base plates and bumper pads (no significant weight increase) are all allowed, all other upgrades like triggers, extended mag releases, steel guide rods, etc, must be OEM up grades or an option on another model of the same brand. Springs are supposed to be OEM replacement as well but how would you know.
 
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