Lead...on the way out?

Ed Smurf

Ed Smurf

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Was watching a report on Radio-Canada "Semaine Verte" . There is serious research being done to try to eliminate lead contamination of wild game from hunters. IIRC they say lead is already illegal in Nova Scotia for big game and also some US states. They did it for birds.
Is this the future?
 
Yes, I believe it is the future , we will no longer be able to use lead bullets. Three are a few other metals that will take is place , but they will be more expensive.
How well they will work in your rifle will have to be determined.
 
Ed Smurf said:
Was watching a report on Radio-Canada "Semaine Verte" . There is serious research being done to try to eliminate lead contamination of wild game from hunters. IIRC they say lead is already illegal in Nova Scotia for big game and also some US states. They did it for birds.
Is this the future?
Click to expand...

the future for sure but up to now those studies are to demonstrate that lead contamination is still more on the scanvengers than humane. i ve seen that show yesterday too. Sweden was supposed to change the legislation in 2006 and did not for the moment. it will come for sure but i ve eaten wild game since i was a kid and for a long time we relied on wild game and im not that bad lol (if we can say something like for me lol).
 
I'm another of those "Older" characters who has been eating game meat taken with lead bullets all his life, without any apparent detrimental effects.

But the handwriting is on the wall....lead will undoubtedly be banned in bullets some time in the future, just when is uncertain.

When ingested, I think that the effects of lead on waterfowl and birds of prey are far more serious than the effects on animals with conventional digestive tracts.

Lead compound vapors that are breathed in, on the other hand, are hazardous to the human organism, particularly when young.

Regards, Dave.
 
I've found lead to be quite lethal to deer,moose,elk,bears,coyotes.....use to work very well on ducks and geese too.
Only thing I found is over the years it has made my hair thin and go white.

Russ...
 
medvedqc said:
the future for sure but up to now those studies are to demonstrate that lead contamination is still more on the scanvengers than humane. i ve seen that show yesterday too. Sweden was supposed to change the legislation in 2006 and did not for the moment. it will come for sure but i ve eaten wild game since i was a kid and for a long time we relied on wild game and im not that bad lol (if we can say something like for me lol).
Click to expand...

I caught a bit of a nature type show, and I don't recall the name, that took place basically in the Grand Canyon area. The focus was on the effects on the Giant Condor population and they believed the problems stemmed from the Condor feeding on carrion containing lead fragments in game and/or animal parts, left behind by hunters. There were also some tests filmed, showing the minute lead particles left behind in the 'wound channel' when lead core bullets were fired into a couple of test mediums.
A number of years back, after a Mule Deer hunt on draw in Alberta with my Daughter & S.I.L., my S.I.L. asked if I had any thoughts of going with some of todays technology for my hunting reloads. I'd never given the idea much consideration. As luck would have it, on two occasions, when we returned home were cutting up the game, he showed me example of why I might want to. On one example specifically, my Daughter and I had both hit our animals in what could be best described as the exact same spot. I was using a 308 NM with 200gr Sierra BT and my Daughter, a 300 WSM with 180gr Barnes TSX. The difference in the amount of meat lost to being bloodshot in my Deer was easily noticeable, about double that of that of my Daughters Deer. Since, in a number of calibres I use and plan on using for hunting, I've gone to Barnes, the TTSX in most instances. For paper punching, whatever gives the best accuracy;)and so far, in my 308 NM, I haven't had Barnes produce quite as good results as those Sierra 200gr SBTs. This year, on my retirement gift Antelope hunt, 140gr Barnes TTSX out of my 7x61 S&H was the choice.:d
 
There is the Barnes TSX and TTSX, the E-Tip from Nosler, the GMX from Hornady and I'm probably missing one or two of the pure copper (or an alloy of) that are already on the market and well accepted even in areas that are not "lead free".

So the big bullet makers are already out in front of this. Sure they made these bullets for the lead free zones but they are convincing the rest of the shooting public that they are better/stronger/faster then "ancient" designs that still contain lead.

I personally have no desire to rush into the lead free stuff, but at least there is a few proven designs there should the day come along.
 
I read a study where they x-ray scanned butchered deer meat and found all sorts of lead fragments in it. I guess when the bullets open up some small pieces go quite a ways inside in random directions. Anyway- made me think that if there is an alternative that works just as well, the extra cost in relation to the expense of hunting doesn't seem that bad. I will try to find that study and post a link... but yes, many areas (like California) have had lead bans for a long time and it does seem like there are reasonable alternatives.
 
The government, both Canadian & U.S., over reacted badly when they banned lead shot. It was as much a political decision as a science based one, and there are a lot of biologists/scientists that dispute the validity of the research this decision was based on. We need to be careful not to fall into that trap again.

I'm one of those that have been shooting lead cored bullets since I started shooting, and I'm still a reasonably healthy individual. A couple of decades of shooting waterfowl with lead shot, and picking it out of my teeth doesn't seem to have hurt me either. I'm confident that there are millions of hunters out there just like me, that have been eating game killed with lead projectiles that are perfectly healthy.

I have no quarrel with anyone that wants to use lead-free bullets for their own peace of mind. I do have a quarrel with governments and lobbyists that are using questionable science to forward some political agenda. It's my body, I'm the one eating the stuff, it should be my decision whether I want to take the risk. If they're really concerned about peoples health and welfare, maybe they should ban tobacco products.
 
Ed Smurf said:
Was watching a report on Radio-Canada "Semaine Verte" . There is serious research being done to try to eliminate lead contamination of wild game from hunters. IIRC they say lead is already illegal in Nova Scotia for big gameand also some US states. They did it for birds.
Is this the future?
Click to expand...

Not true yet.There are a few nuts that say the lead is killing the eagles,I see no evidence of that when i was a kid and we seen an eagle we called all the neighbors out for a look at a rare sight,Now their like seagulls their everywhere in huge numbers.
 
NShunter1254 said:
Not true yet.There are a few nuts that say the lead is killing the eagles,I see no evidence of that when i was a kid and we seen an eagle we called all the neighbors out for a look at a rare sight,Now their like seagulls their everywhere in huge numbers.
Click to expand...
I think it was more due to the banning of DDT.
 
I suspect lead contamination of wild game from hunters is minimal and more about the anti-hunting gangs looking for ways to do so than anything else. Even with migratory birds.
Condors feeding on carrion has always been more about chemicals than lead. Ditto for eagles etc. Specifically DDT that hasn't been used for eons.
 
Last year, just for giggles, I had my blood lead level checked.

Before I tell you the result, I need to explain that I have melted at least a tonne of wheel weights, used roofing lead, and cable shielding since I was a kid. My Dad and I used to make (and sell) cannon-ball weights for downriggers.
Plus, my father was an avid hunter, most years a significant amount of the meat I ate was big and small game, and migratory birds, all harvested with conventional ammuntion. Like many of you, I know the "joy" of biting down on a piece of birdshot or of a bullet fragment
When I began shooting myself, I prowled the local woods with my pellet rifle, often holding a few spare pellets in my mouth... I can't even guess how many I swallowed; but it was more than a few.
Since the early 1980's I have reloaded many rounds of various pistol calibres with cast bullets, handling them with my bare hands.

So, now to the punchline....

My doctor tells me that in Canada, the average blood lead level (BLL) is between 0.5 and 1.0 micrograms per decilitre (0.5-to-1.0 μg/dl), the ideal level is 0, of course; but because of the lead in the enviroment, no Canadian adult will have a level of 0.
The level that causes medical concern is 5 μg/dl or above.

My BLL is 0.05μg/dl. Yup, zero-point-zero-five. 1/10th of the average and 1/100th of the level that causes medical concern.

Metallic lead has never been a problem.
 
9.3mauser said:
The government, both Canadian & U.S., over reacted badly when they banned lead shot.

You may well be right, I don't really know. A sad point for me would be to open up the chokes on my 10ga. AYA so as to use steel shot. That would be a crime considering how tight it patterns with the likes of the Federal Premium loads I've put through it. Hope to eventually get my hands on some ITX or Bismuth shot.
It was as much a political decision as a science based one, and there are a lot of biologists/scientists that dispute the validity of the research this decision was based on. We need to be careful not to fall into that trap again.

I'm one of those that have been shooting lead cored bullets since I started shooting, and I'm still a reasonably healthy individual. A couple of decades of shooting waterfowl with lead shot, and picking it out of my teeth doesn't seem to have hurt me either. I'm confident that there are millions of hunters out there just like me, that have been eating game killed with lead projectiles that are perfectly healthy.

Much the same position myself. Started in the mid 50's with game Dad brought home, and then later when I started making my;) 'contributions', starting about 50 years ago.

I have no quarrel with anyone that wants to use lead-free bullets for their own peace of mind. I do have a quarrel with governments and lobbyists that are using questionable science to forward some political agenda. It's my body, I'm the one eating the stuff, it should be my decision whether I want to take the risk. If they're really concerned about peoples health and welfare, maybe they should ban tobacco products.
Click to expand...

Good point, and being a 'good boy', and after 40 years of it, that was one of the things I gave up after being diagnosed as type II. When I finished school and first started working in a logging camp, we used to drive home on the weekends so hammered we had to close one eye to help eliminate all the extra white lines that had appeared on the road. There's a lot of 'things' we done and some we will continue to do and be lucky enough 90% of the time to get away with. And, then there's some we'll bite the bullet on. Don't know what the magic answer is, if there is one. Just that, getting a;)little older, I seem to listen a little more these days. Can only beat the odds for so long.
 
Lol,I used to carry a few spare .22 lead pellets in my mouth as well,just felt handier than grabbing from the tin,especially while on the move.
 
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