Lead...on the way out?
- Thread starter Ed Smurf
- Start date
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I don't think lead is as toxic as people think I have been casting lead in one form or another for 8 years now no problems here. I have hunted with lead core/cast bullets for as long as I have been hunting and even before I hunted I ate wild game that was you guessed taken with lead core bullets.
Lead is highly toxic as all heavy metals are (e.g. mercury). DDT has been highly restricted for decades now, although that is in NA and other countries still allow it. It affected the bird's abilities to produce calcium so eggs were compromised. Also it affected the nervous system and was stored in the fat (dairy cattle!!!) so apex predators were very vulnerable to contamination. PCB's caused many of the problems blamed on DDT as their toxicology is similar (both are tri-chlorine compounds). Lead is not not a worry in most hunting situations given the shot area is cleaned. WW11 vets packed lead around for years but injesting it is another story.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
And how old are you / how long has this been going on? I know of one gunsmith for sure who had organ failure, very likely from a lifetime of heavy metal exposure. The risk to us as humans is lower than the risk to smaller animals as well. Overall there is no question lead is harmful, we're simply balancing risk vs cost.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
im 21 I have been casting since I was 12 can lead be harmful is large amounts yes if you are not smart about it a single bullet or few shot pellets is not going to make much of a difference
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Regarding lead for waterfowl, I believe it was banned because of the effect that lead has on water systems and not because of the fear of ingesting lead. Hence why you are allowed to shoot lead at upland game and not at at waterfowl. I personally support the banning of lead for waterfowling. Not because I want to bone my fellow hunters but because lead is very toxic and if we truly believe in conservation for future generations we must not contaminate water supplies with lead. Consider that if a group of hunters each goes to the same lake/pond and fires 1-2 shots/bird of 1oz lead shot with no one to clean it up afterwards, in a century that lake/pond will have some really elevated lead levels which have a knock on effect for the pond's eco-system. As for banning lead in bullets for big game, I am not sure that this is a truly worthwhile endeavor. The areas where lead build up will be an issue (i.e. shooting/skeet ranges) have to be remediated before they can be re-purposed and I doubt that any hunter is going to shoot enough lead in one area that it can cause problems in a favored hunting area.
All that was needed was a little education on dose (concentration) of DDT, but instead it's been banned everywhere except the Congo and some other sh!thole country. Now guess what? Malaria and other insect borne inclusions/viruses are back! WOO!!! Way to go treehuggers. The same type of BS research was done to ban lead shot on migratory birds. Now it's bullets and people here are generally ok with that?
Not this guy. I couldn't afford to shoot any "lead substitute" and don't think many shooters aren't in the same boat.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
here in Ontario we are still using lead fishing weights lead shot was banned because there was a fear of the birds eating it plain and simple
Something tells me that you haven't shot many coyotes or much of anything other than paper. You have to pay to play with the good stuff, and it bothers me not at all if you can't for whatever reason.
Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Antiqueguy: When you use fishing weights, you're not supposed to lose the weight - granted some will be lost not the same as shooting an ounce of lead every time into the water...
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
i have shot plenty of them a lot of them were taken with .22lr or 12g with shot size from #4 shot to #4 buck personally id be using cheap projectiles(fmj or soft point) if i used ceneterfire so far they all die no need to pay $3 a round to do so. i shoot a lot of rimfire and shot shells as most of my hunting is on pests
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
you have never fished the Detroit river you lose more weights then you buy i now use steel wheel weights because i don't like wasting lead
I think lead is a lot like mercury.
People don't want that stuff getting into the environment.
Because after all we did import those toxic metals from another planet.
It's not like it occurs "naturally" or anything - so best to keep those "alien" substances from the ground that they came from in the first place, right?
People don't want that stuff getting into the environment.
Because after all we did import those toxic metals from another planet.
It's not like it occurs "naturally" or anything - so best to keep those "alien" substances from the ground that they came from in the first place, right?
Generally I agree with most of what you are saying but , yes sir I remember opening day of the lead ban for water fowl and ignoring how many birds we crippled with the poor quality of alternatives available then saying to my bud next to me.
I quote " Now does this make sense no lead allowed in my guns but I am tossing out string after string of decoys out all with pounds and pounds of lead hanging off them in the water
Could never figure that one out
Cheers
To me in the water was in the water and yes many got lost also over the years
Lets see balancing risk.??? Getting sick or worse from lead or getting sick or worse from spending time in Africia
Humm I think I will take the lead odds
To each their own
Cheers
Oh yes I am real old with about 45 plus years handling lots of lead and my dad was a smith which lead never effected him plus I have had full heavy metal testing at least 8 times in my career and it will shock you if you ever get it done.
Lead was far from what showed up as a problem. Like my uranium and thorium was off the charts yet never around either in my life other than living by a thermo generating plant which is what they figured was the source. Hard to stop breathing however to control that one
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Glock4ever
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
It seems like people are either really ignorant or are choosing to be ignorant about lead. Yes, Galamb lead is a naturally occurring metal in nature but if I were to take high concentrations of it an introduce it into your body you will die. Google Franklin Expedition if you are interested in seeing what lead can do to you. The issue with lead and waterfowling is that you are taking something that does not exist naturally in one eco-system and introducing it in large quantities which will have a long term effect on THAT eco-system.
To hear some of the hunters on hear spouting that they don't want to pay a little bit of extra money to be a better steward is just plain selfish. How many shells do you think you will shoot at waterfowl? So to save a few bucks, you would rather destroy a future hunting spot? As we become more urbanized, there is less and less land available to hunt - we should be looking to preserve it for future use.
To hear some of the hunters on hear spouting that they don't want to pay a little bit of extra money to be a better steward is just plain selfish. How many shells do you think you will shoot at waterfowl? So to save a few bucks, you would rather destroy a future hunting spot? As we become more urbanized, there is less and less land available to hunt - we should be looking to preserve it for future use.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
so you think its a good idea to ban lead cutting out 95% of hunters from hunting leaving only the few that use "non toxic" and they will soon be stopped from hunting by the anti hunters lead has been used in firearms for over 600 years and for a very good reason it is soft easily formed and its everywhere. only a handful of my guns see jacketed ammo regularly most of my guns see cast and some of them can't use anything but cast. i simply will never use lead free ammo because its hard on guns i will not even use surplus ammo because of the hard jackets. maybe you should stop hunting if you feel this way
I wonder who is ignorant. Maybe a good start would be to eliminate it from the countries that still use it in their daily gasoline like
Asia, including SE and NE Asia:
Afghanistan
Burma (official name ‘Myanmar’)
North Korea (official name ‘Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea’)
North Africa:
Algeria
Middle East:
Iraq
Yemen
Or in the US and canada which still use tons and tons of it every year in the aviation fuel or maybe we should remove every galvanized structure, guard rail etc etc that was subected to a hot dipped galvanized process and breaking down. I could go on and on for pages
Who in the big picture is ignorant. Lead bullets are like pissing in the ocean with respect to the long term effect on the enviroment
Cheers
Not hard to see that I am dealing with another one box a year shooter.
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antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
