Picture of the day

The problem with the heartwarming story of the Luftwaffe fighter pilot allowing that B-17 to escape was that the crew was then ordered to complete subsequent bombing missions over German cities. By not shooting them down he sealed the fate of his countrymen/women/children who were later bombed by that same crew.
The "code" ought to say that, if your enemy lets you live, you are not to engage in further hostilities for the rest of your life.

In the past, there has been such a "code". It was called "parole". Thousands of Napoleon's Grand Armee were interned on an island (whose name escapes me at the mo'), fed, clothed, etc., on the understanding that they were going to sit out the rest of the war.
It worked for a while until corrupt officials reduced their rations, causing many to renege and rejoin the fight - if they could escape the island. Thousands more died of starvation and the effects of lengthy deprivation.

I believe that "parole" was used by both sides in the ACW as well, mainly with Officers.
 
B-17 Picture

You all might know a family or acquaintence that would appreicate the history of this remarkable story. We are losing the generation of the WWII veterans.
One of the many reasons they call it "The greatest Generation".
NOW THEIR AVERAGE AGE IS 90. JUST KIDS SENT OFF TO BECOME MEN WAY BEFORE THEIR TIME.


B-17 "All American" (414th Squadron, 97BG) Crew
Pilot- Ken Bragg Jr.
Copilot- G. Boyd Jr.
Navigator- Harry C. Nuessle
Bombardier- Ralph Burbridge
Engineer- Joe C. James
Radio Opera tor- Paul A. Galloway
Ball Turret Gunner- Elton Conda
Waist Gunner- Michael Zuk
Tail Gunner- Sam T. Sarpolus
Ground Crew Chief- Hank Hyland

In 1943 a mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area,
became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of WW II.
An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went out of control, probably
with a wounded pilot, then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named "All American", piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron.
When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but l eft some pieces in the B-17.
The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away.
The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump leak.
The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut almost completely through connected only at two small parts of the frame, and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged.
There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide at its widest; the split in the fuselage went all the way
to the top gunner's turret.


Although the tail actually bounced and sway ed in the wind and twisted when the plane turned
and all the control cables were severed, except one single elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft miraculously still flew!
The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail to the rest of the plane.
The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter and their own parachute harnesses
in an attempt to keep the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting apart.
While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart,
the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target.

When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that it blew
one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section.
It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from parachutes
and haul him back into the forward part of the plane. When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner,
the tail began flapping so hard that it began to break off.
The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so he went back to his position.
The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off.
They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home.
The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and was soon alone in the sky.

For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters attacked the All American.
Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to respond to these attacks
and soon drove off the fighters. The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking out
through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns.
The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn.


Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it
crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures
shown.
They also radioed to the base describing that the
appendage was waving like a fish tail and that the plane
would not make it and to send out boats to rescue the crew
when they bailed out.
The fighters stayed with the Fortress, taking hand signals from Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base.
Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bail out.
He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the plane to land it.

Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to line up with the runway
while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear.

When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured.
No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition.
The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner
had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed.


This old bird had done its job and brought the entire crew home uninjured.

 
I'll bet they blessed Boeing for the strength of the airframe! There would also seem to have been some divine providence involved as well.
 
and the Me-163 was only a rammer, but i dont know if any were successful

Not quite.
"Two prototypes were followed by 30 Me 163 B-0 pre-production aircraft armed with two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and some 400 Me 163 B-1 production aircraft armed with two 30 mm (1.18 inch) MK 108 cannons, but which were otherwise similar to the B-0. Occasional references to B-1a or Ba-1 subtypes are found in the literature on the aircraft, but the meanings of these designations are somewhat unclear."
 
Not quite.
"Two prototypes were followed by 30 Me 163 B-0 pre-production aircraft armed with two 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon and some 400 Me 163 B-1 production aircraft armed with two 30 mm (1.18 inch) MK 108 cannons, but which were otherwise similar to the B-0. Occasional references to B-1a or Ba-1 subtypes are found in the literature on the aircraft, but the meanings of these designations are somewhat unclear."

well, that'll show me then. Am i thinking of a different rocket glider perhaps?
 
Hitler ordered Luftwaffe pilots to ram Allied bombers if necessary. Are there any recorded incidents of this being done?

Yes there were some verified rams, I believe I read about them in one of Antony Beevors' books. It was somewhere around 200 pilots committed to ramming bombers but they were largely unsuccessful because of the overwhelming Allied fighter escort that the bombers enjoyed near the end of WW2. Sorry can't remember exactly but it may have been during Goerings last ditch great air offensive.
 
Wasn't this something the British introduced to the Middle East and parts of Asia? Something about it being a very public, and messy way to execute people as a deterrent. Also, in some of the regions cultures, only those portions of you that were interred, would ascend to the afterlife with you as a part of your immortal being. So by executing a person in this manner, the message being delivered is "Mess with us, and we'll not only execute you, but mess up your afterlife as well."

No, sorry. That was used by the Moghuls and others long before the British got there. The deterrent value was as you describe it. The gunners usually had to change their clothes afterwards. While we're talking about India, the Sikhs had much better artillery than the "John Company" (East India Company) forces. They were also trained by former Napoleonic artillery officers, and anyone who knows about that era knows how Napoleon emphasized artillery.

The result was the British specialized in the bayonet, which takes some guts when the guns you're marching towards are loaded with grape and canister. For those that don't know, canister shot is 600 or so musket balls in a tin box, turning your artillery piece into one big shotgun - nasty.
 
Sorry, can't let that version of the story around "The All American" stand.

That version comes from an email that's been floating around for a few years, and gets most of the facts wrong.

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/wwiis-b-17-all-american-separating-fact-fiction.html

Well it is an amazing story, that much is certain. Though in reading it, the damage pictured didn’t seem to align with the damage described, a bombing mission to Tunis in northern Africa, dispatched from England is an impossibility (not to mention having to overfly the entirety of Axis-occupied Europe to do it), and the plane appears to be on the ground in a desert, which to the best of our knowledge, England is most decidedly not. There are several other problems within the story both large and small, but to completely dissect it would take forever and it would time away from the REAL story of the “All American.”

The “All American” was actually based near Biskra, Algeria, a much more reasonable +/- 300 miles from Tunis. On the fateful day in question, the All American was part of a formation of bombers attacking the German-controlled seaport. Braving heavy flak and German fighters on the way in, the “All American” and her crew managed to drop their bombs and were on their way back to base when the German fighter planes began attacking again, pursuing them to the fighters’ maximum return range, when the attacks ended. However, two more Messerschmitts appeared and came in for the attack.

One of the fighters went straight for the nose of the lead bomber of the formation and the other came for the nose of “All American.” The crew of “All American” fired at the plane coming for them from their nose turret while firing at the fighter heading for the lead bomber from the right side nose gun. Between the fire of All American and the lead bomber, the fighter going after that plane was disabled and sent down, smoke pouring from it as it descended. The fighter that was attacking the “All American,” head-on and guns blazing, began a roll to pull away, but halfway through the maneuver, gunfire from either “All American” or the lead bomber must have killed or incapacitated the fighter pilot and the plane never completed the collision-avoiding maneuver.

The fighter passed over ‘All American,” to say with inches to spare would be inaccurate as the plane tore a significant hole in the rear of the fuselage and removed the left horizontal stabilizer. The remaining parts of the tail section, the vertical and right stabilizer seemed like they could shake loose at any moment. Miraculously, none of the B-17′s crew were injured and the men all donned their parachutes, ready to abandon the plane should the tail break off.

The other crews in the formation, seeing that the B-17 was crippled, but remaining aloft, slowed to a speed the injured bird could maintain and formed a formation around her until they were out from enemy territory. Once the formation was outside of the maximum range for the German fighter planes, the rest of the formation went on ahead and “All American” limped on alone. The Flying Fortress landed safely, though without her tail wheel which unsurprisingly was inoperative.

As one would imagine making it safely to the ground was an emotional experience for both the flight and ground crews, a testament to the bravery of her crew, her compatriots and the legendary robustness of the Boeing B-17, that stands quite well all on its own without the additional fantastical embellishments.

There is an excellent article with an interview with Ralph Burbridge, the bombardier on “All American” in which you can read his first person account of this mission, as well as his other wartime experiences, though the article incorrectly introduces a bit of misinformation of its own.* Sadly, Burbridge passed away earlier this year at the age of 93.
 
Sorry, can't let that version of the story around "The All American" stand.

That version comes from an email that's been floating around for a few years, and gets most of the facts wrong.

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/wwiis-b-17-all-american-separating-fact-fiction.html

When I first read the story before posting it I thought there was something off about it, particularly the bit about a raid in Tunis and returning to England. Then the bit about dropping the bombs after the damage had been inflicted on the All American also seemed strange. It sounded more like a movie script version of the events than reality. Despite the story being less than authentic, (and thanks to grelmar for setting it straight) I hope the pictures were of interest.
 
When I first read the story before posting it I thought there was something off about it, particularly the bit about a raid in Tunis and returning to England. Then the bit about dropping the bombs after the damage had been inflicted on the All American also seemed strange. It sounded more like a movie script version of the events than reality. Despite the story being less than authentic, (and thanks to grelmar for setting it straight) I hope the pictures were of interest.

No worries. I've gotten caught up by some of those emails in the past as well. This was just a case of "Oh, I've read this before, what was it about this again... ???"

Either way, it's a fascinating story, and a testament to the way those aircraft were built, and to the men that flew them.
 
P47 - flak damage causes minor oil leak.

P-47-Lt-Edwin-King-flak-caused-oil-leak-Italy-Jan45.jpg


Pilot returns home safely, reports very regular bowel movements for the next four years.

141559442-lieutenant-edwin-king-next-to-his-gettyimages.jpg
 
P47 - flak damage causes minor oil leak.

P-47-Lt-Edwin-King-flak-caused-oil-leak-Italy-Jan45.jpg


Pilot returns home safely, reports very regular bowel movements for the next four years.

141559442-lieutenant-edwin-king-next-to-his-gettyimages.jpg

this was a real problem for many ww1 pilots, with engines using a dead loss castor oil system, they were breathing oil mist the whole time they flew. this is also the reason for the scarves, as a rudimentary gas mask of sorts and to clear the oil off their goggles
 
this was a real problem for many ww1 pilots, with engines using a dead loss castor oil system, they were breathing oil mist the whole time they flew. this is also the reason for the scarves, as a rudimentary gas mask of sorts and to clear the oil off their goggles

Interesting that you mention scarves worn by pilots in WWII. An elderly gentleman who was my next door neighbor until he passed away in 1999, was a navigator on a Lancaster in 405 Pathfinder Squadron. He flew 30 missions over Germany and was one of the lucky ones who returned home. He had a hobby that I thought a bit odd. He was an excellent knitter. He knit mittens,socks, touques, scarves-- you name it. It was something that he picked up as a way to pass time between missions during his tour of duty. He told me there were lots of young guys who took up the knitting habit while overseas. Probably not many continued with it after the war like he did. I still have a great pair of wool mitts he knit for me for hunting. Custom made with a thumb, trigger finger and a part for the rest of the digits. He also knit sweaters, mitts and touques for my kids for christmas each year when they were very young. My wife has saved many of these as well.
 
P47 - flak damage causes minor oil leak.

P-47-Lt-Edwin-King-flak-caused-oil-leak-Italy-Jan45.jpg


Pilot returns home safely, reports very regular bowel movements for the next four years.

141559442-lieutenant-edwin-king-next-to-his-gettyimages.jpg

That oil looks very dirty. He needed an oil change anyway.

The 2000 hp engine used a dry sump and an oil tank of about 30 gallons. Looks like he lost 29 gallons of it. But he got it home.

The flap you can see is a nice design. I would call it a semi-Fowler design. It tracks out and down, increasing the flap area.

Is the pilot wearing G-pants?
 
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