Fishy? heck it smells worse than a bait barrel.
Opinions on Best Long Range Rifle for Deer, Moose and Elk
- Thread starter huntingsask
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Fishy? heck it smells worse than a bait barrel.
I may have come through as one of the guys saying that shots at over 300 yds. are unethical. If that is so, it was not my intention in the least. I was simply trying to make the OP aware of the costs, risks and ethical aspects of long range shooting. It can be done, and done ethically, but the rules are fairly strict and it does get expensive. Personally, I have a 308 rig that I would love to fine-tune to the point of being able to shoot 1000 yds at paper and maybe take bears in blueberry patches at 600 or so (when feeding on berries, they don't tend to move much, giving a bullet time to get there). But I am still a long way away from being able to do that, in terms of ability, equipment, and loads. Presently, for me, with my hunting equipment, the max is 300, although I have a Marlin Guide Gun that I know well enough to confidently make 200 yard shots with, which is a fairly long shot for that caliber.
My concern is/was that an awful lot of guys, for whatever reason, figure that you can go out, buy a hot cartridge like a RUM, and that you will instantly be ready for 1000+ yard shots with laser-like trajectory. Not saying anything against the guys that think that way, it's probably a lack of experience and information, but it's kind of the same thing as having the hottest crotch-rocket, snowmobile or muscle car - it's a lot of fun, but if you try to drive like a pro race driver, unless you have the practice, training and experience, youze gonna be in a world of hurt, or having a face-to-face interview with St. Peter.
My concern is/was that an awful lot of guys, for whatever reason, figure that you can go out, buy a hot cartridge like a RUM, and that you will instantly be ready for 1000+ yard shots with laser-like trajectory. Not saying anything against the guys that think that way, it's probably a lack of experience and information, but it's kind of the same thing as having the hottest crotch-rocket, snowmobile or muscle car - it's a lot of fun, but if you try to drive like a pro race driver, unless you have the practice, training and experience, youze gonna be in a world of hurt, or having a face-to-face interview with St. Peter.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Shooting groups is the start of building your confidence in your equipment, your ammo and most of all yourself.
If you can't throw together a group @ 100 yards are you seriously going to try go further?
Groups are pretty damn important.Not saying practice and experience isn't but those groups are the start.
If you can't throw together a group @ 100 yards are you seriously going to try go further?
Groups are pretty damn important.Not saying practice and experience isn't but those groups are the start.
- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
Well, after all the research I have done to date, I have decided to go with the Weatherby MARK V® ULTRA LIGHTWEIGHT RC in either 300 Win Mag. or 300 Wby. Mag. or 7MM Rem. Mag. still a little more research to do before I decide on which though.
Going to a gun shop today to see how it fits, can't wait!
Going to a gun shop today to see how it fits, can't wait!
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Well it is an affordable platform with which to start, and one only need install a new trigger, a new match barrel, that is chambered, crowned, and fitted to the now blue printed action, which is then correctly bedded in a good stiff aftermarket stock, in order to be a viable long range outfit. Well, I guess that takes care of affordable, and we haven't begun to talk about optics and mounts. The question then is whether an SPS rifle is less expensive, or more readily acquired, than a 700 action alone.
A M-700 Sendero in .300 Winchester might get you in the game, and can be slowly improved with respect to bedding and trigger while you shoot out that first barrel. The barrels of long range rifles must be considered consumable, and are more rapidly consumed when chambered for cartridges with greater powder volumes than the .308/.30/06 class of cartridges. If I was interested in .30 caliber, long range, game shooting rifle, the .300 Ultra would be my choice. I can easily attain .300 magnum velocities with heavy bullets, without encountering the high pressure of the shorter skinnier cartridge, and which might provide me with greater brass life. As with all centerfire considerations, it is the handloader who provides the final word in cost, precision, versatility, and power.
If the long range shooting bug has really bit you, perhaps the time to consider the purchase of a second rifle, an identical Sendero, or the consideration of a custom rifle, is while you are busily shooting out that first barrel. Thus down the road, one rifle will be on the range, or in the field, while the other is in the shop. Again we see that affordability is relative, and that there is no way to acquire the skills necessary to be a long range game shooter without a significant expenditure of capital. For most working guys, it would consume all disposable income, to say nothing of your spare time which is then split between the loading bench and the range, so forget the boat, the quad, the 4X4, the cottage, or any other shooting interests you might have. Long range shooting, and the purchase of the tools that are necessary to engage in that activity, will be all consuming, and will leave little for anything else.
If this all sounds a little negative, sorry, but you might as well go into this with your eyes open.
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- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
Well, as I mentioned earlier most of my shots on game are under 200 yards, I am sure this rifle will be lethal up to 800 yards which is ample. Practicing out to 1000 will be a lot of fun.
I am not sure which scope I will be putting on it, but I do know that I want a minimum of 20x5Omm with the best glass on the market. So far I like the Zeiss because you can have turrets made and I like the turret system simply because it takes the guess work out of shooting. I am not stuck on any one brand of scope, but I will do quite a bit of research before I make a final decision on the scope, I will probably go higher then a x20 magnification and in the end the most important factor besides glass is a lighter weight scope.
I do not mind making modifications like a better trigger, and would like trigger weight of no more then 2 lbs.
I am not sure which scope I will be putting on it, but I do know that I want a minimum of 20x5Omm with the best glass on the market. So far I like the Zeiss because you can have turrets made and I like the turret system simply because it takes the guess work out of shooting. I am not stuck on any one brand of scope, but I will do quite a bit of research before I make a final decision on the scope, I will probably go higher then a x20 magnification and in the end the most important factor besides glass is a lighter weight scope.
I do not mind making modifications like a better trigger, and would like trigger weight of no more then 2 lbs.
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high magnification scopes are hard to hunt with but grate at the rifle range there is always a trade off nothing is free
- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
Agreed, however when I am hunting I always have the magnification dialed down. If I were to take a longer shot on game, lets say 500 yards it would be in a situation where the animal did not know I was there and stationary so I would have time to adjust the scope and set up for the shot, before taking it.
You don't need over 20 power for 1000 yards. With your 6lb unbraked 300 whatever you won't even have the slightest idea where your shot went. Clarity of glass trumps magnification.
Did you read anything I wrote about the turrets with yardage marks on them?
Did you read anything I wrote about the turrets with yardage marks on them?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The tactics of, and the equipment required for long range game shooting doesn't lend itself particularly well to short range hunting. Rifles are typically in the 10-15 pound range, and perhaps heavier is appropriate if the rifle is chambered for a big cartridge. Optics typically have narrow fields of view, and have so much magnification at the lowest setting, that rapidly finding a short range target is difficult. Triggers that are on the light side are excellent on the rifle range, or for long shots in the field, but do not lend themselves very well to snap shots, in cold weather, while the hunter is in a state of excitement. The rifle will fire before you ever feel the trigger. One does not gain versatility by choosing a rifle suited for long range shooting, when normal big game ranges are anticipated.
Shooting out to a half mile is within the ballistic potential of an accurate .308 or .30/06 sporting rifle, topped with a 3.5-10X40 scope equipped with target turrets and mounted on a 20 minute angled base. There is little advantage in choosing a heavy barrel rifle when 1-3 rounds are fired just as accurately from a sporter weight barrel. This platform will provide the versatility necessary for short to medium big game big game hunting scenarios, while allowing you to learn the fundamentals of long range shooting, 500-1000 yards, if not extended range shooting, that is the ranges beyond the point that bullet is super sonic and drops into transonic velocities. You just have to keep you shot strings short, and allow time for the barrel to cool between strings.
a guy that can put his rifle on target fast will out hunt the best long range hunter 9 times out of 10
the rig you are talking sounds like fun but if it filling your freezer is you main goal you going into it handicapped right of the bat
the rig you are talking sounds like fun but if it filling your freezer is you main goal you going into it handicapped right of the bat
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- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
Just got back from checking out the Weatherby, don't like the fit or the top loading aspect so that's out lol. "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!"
I do like the fit of the Browning X-bolt Eclipse however. Lots more work to do including taking to gunsmiths that custom build. If I do go factory I will be replacing the factory trigger with a Jewell trigger for sure!
I do like the fit of the Browning X-bolt Eclipse however. Lots more work to do including taking to gunsmiths that custom build. If I do go factory I will be replacing the factory trigger with a Jewell trigger for sure!
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
IMHO, the Browning would be a serious mistake for the long range shooter/handloader. The 60 degree bolt lacks the camming action necessary to seat neck sized cartridges. From my own experience with these rifles, the bolt is complicated and servicing the silly thing is a PIA. For the hunter who is not much of a recreational shooter, and who relies exclusively on factory ammo, its a fine, if not inexpensive choice.
As for "fit" any rifle can be fitted to the individual shooter through the use of a saw, spacers, and a recoil pad. A bit short is preferable to too long, as a long stock increases the felt recoil, and if the rifle stock is fitted with spacers, it can be adjusted for all occasions, otherwise if its a touch short for summertime use, it should be about right for late fall, but a bit long for the dead of winter. With the Weartherby(s) it comes down to a personal choice of whether or not you appreciate the lines and handling qualities of the California Monte-Carlo. Long range shooters generally prefer a butt that is closer to the centerline of the bore so that muzzle rise is lessened, and the bullet strike can be seen through the scope.
- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
Thanks for your input, maybe custom is the way for me to go. I know exactly what I want in my next rifle i.e. fit, dimensions and weight wise. The only real issue is finding one that meets all of my criteria and is in the caliber which will meet with my expectations and needs.
I will post again when I get closer to my final decision. Thanks All!
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- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
Savage with a custom stock??
Another strike against the Browning is 1-32 barrel thread. Some gunsmiths wont take them off because if the threads gall there's going to be a lot of hard feelings.1-32 thread and Loctite is pretty much telling you Browning does want that barrel coming off.
- Location
- West of The Missouri Breaks
I am going to take your advice Dogleg and take a good look at the Remington 700 and If I like the fit I can have it modified as per your recommendation.
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