7.62x39 for bear

jjohnwm said:
I love that tired old "the average black bear is only about 5 pounds..." crap that always comes up on these threads. Yep, we all yearn to shoot an "average" animal, and will happily pass up an exceptional one. For sure, the only rifle worth shooting is the bare minimum that will work... :rolleyes:

I have an SKS, and I enjoy shooting it...but can anyone deny that it's just about the crappiest hunting rifle in the world? If the SKS had never existed, and someone designed it today, then built it and attempted to market it to the public for use as a hunting rifle, they would be laughed clean off the planet. If that's all a person can afford, the Mosin is also available in that price bracket and would make an infinitely superior gun for hunting bear or anything else.
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[troll] And yet, Ruger still manages to sell the Mini-30 by the shipping container. [/troll]

My biggest complaint with the SKS for hunting (and I've actually used it successfully to take a deer - last fall, kinda to prove a point to a friend who kept ragging on the SKS), is that it's a heavy brick to haul around through the bush.

But for the price point (and really, when we're talking SKS, it's all about the price point), it's a good all around gun that you can hunt the smaller ungulates with. As an all around truck gun/ranch rifle/rough rugged and ready do-all, I'd take an SKS over a Mini-30 all day, every day, even if they were the same price.

There's some serious snobbery when it comes to any gun discussion. To me, it's all about "can it get the job done" and the SKS can get a lot of different jobs done. Are there better choices for any individual job? Absolutely. But so what? Run the gun you brung.

One of the best things about an SKS for new shooters and hunters, or even experienced shooters and hunters who happen to be on a budget, is you can get the gun and a couple thousand rounds for less than you would pay for just the gun for most hunting rifles. This lets you take it to the range and the bush and shoot and shoot and shoot until you know it like the back of your hand and it becomes an extension of you. That level of familiarity with a so-so rifle will trump the high budget hunter with a $2k Tika that gets sighted in once at the range, which counts as the only practice the Rolls Royce hunter puts in all year.
 
But what is the value of a rifle that you can "shoot and shoot and shoot until you know it like the back of your hand and it becomes an extension of you" if all you can get is shotgun-like patterns at 50 yards?

Doesn't seem like to you can learn much about shooting an accurate rife accurately that way. It doesn't have to be a "Rolls Royce" rifle either. A $200 Tradex hunting rifle plus a scope will be fine.
 
The only things the Mini30 has in common with the SKS are the chambering and the (lack of) accuracy. The Mini is easily scoped, has surprisingly decent aperture sights if you choose to use them, and has a comfortable stock designed for humans rather than Hobbits. By all means, "run what you brung", and if the SKS is all you have, it can be pressed into service for hunting. But if a beginner is looking to buy a super-low-budget hunting rifle, a Mosin has the SKS beat on just about all counts...ergonomics, accuracy, cartridge effectiveness...you name it.

I bought my SKS for one reason: because I wanted an SKS. Mission accomplished. But for hunting, for target, for plinking, for low cost of rifle, for low cost of ammo, for just about anything...there's always a better choice than an SKS.

Okay...you want a semi-auto, inexpensive, centerfire, iron-sighted, heavier-than-necessary, funky-looking, uber-reliable, uncomfortable gun to shoot cheap ammo. Maybe the SKS is your top choice. :)
 
jjohnwm said:
The only things the Mini30 has in common with the SKS are the chambering and the (lack of) accuracy. The Mini is easily scoped, has surprisingly decent aperture sights if you choose to use them, and has a comfortable stock designed for humans rather than Hobbits. By all means, "run what you brung", and if the SKS is all you have, it can be pressed into service for hunting. But if a beginner is looking to buy a super-low-budget hunting rifle, a Mosin has the SKS beat on just about all counts...ergonomics, accuracy, cartridge effectiveness...you name it.

I bought my SKS for one reason: because I wanted an SKS. Mission accomplished. But for hunting, for target, for plinking, for low cost of rifle, for low cost of ammo, for just about anything...there's always a better choice than an SKS.

Okay...you want a semi-auto, inexpensive, centerfire, iron-sighted, heavier-than-necessary, funky-looking, uber-reliable, uncomfortable gun to shoot cheap ammo. Maybe the SKS is your top choice. :)
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I agree with you, in that the Mosin is a better choice overall for hunting, And I own a SKS and a Mosin 91/30. But disagree with you about the SKS being a bad choice for hunting in all situations, not as good a choice as the mosin for sure especially for larger game, but not a bad one either for smaller game.

But this depends on your SKS I suppose. Need to be able to hit the target. I have a good specimen purchased from Corwin arms that seems unrefurbished and lightly used when I got it, wasn't even any wear marks on the bolt or bolt carrier, shoots 2-3MOA all day long even when steaming hot, and with the 2" butt plate extension($10) is not uncomfortable to shoot. Bottom line is if you are only hunting deer sized game at out to 200 yards the SKS is a fine choice. For larger game or Longer shots though, ill grab the Mosin everytime.

Another good thing about the SKS as its bullet proof, im pretty sure I could run it over with my truck and it would still function, not sure how many modern rifles could say the same, when out in the bush reliability is a key selling point for me. Ive been with people who have had rifle issues on a hunt and had it stop them from making a kill, I don't see that being a issue no matter what you do to a SKS. There might be a better semi auto hunting rifle than the SKS, but not for $200-$250.
 
Boomer said:
The fact that the SKS was made for war is not what makes it a crappy hunting arm. It's short sight radius, poorly designed stock, and miserable trigger combine to make it a crappy hunting rifle, as well as a crappy military rifle. Some of our best hunting rifles have have a martial origin, in fact, for generation, hunters have chosen the primary military rifles of their respective countries and Lee Enfields, Springfields, and Mausers are all well represented. The 98 Mauser is a military rifle of some repute, whose basic design can be seen in almost all modern bolt action sporting rifles. The origins of the hunting rifle matter less than it's elements, and those having sights you can see, triggers that enhance marksmanship, and stocks that are appropriate for human beings to hold on to, tend to be the best choices. The principles of field marksmanship, whether on the battlefield and in the hunting field, are the same, therefore, the basic elements that make a rifle suitable for the soldier, also make the rifle desirable for the hunter.

The trajectory of the 7.62X39 is flatter than some popular hunting cartridges, such as the .45/70, the .44 magnum, the .30/30 (when loaded with flat nosed bullets),or the .458 Winchester. A good rifle chambered for the mini .30 might surprise you. Loaded with a slippery mid weight bullet, and sighted for 150 yards, it would hit about 10" low at 250. If, for example, you were hunting blacktails on the Queen Charlotte Islands, a CZ-527 in 7.62X39 would be hard to beat.
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Yeah so the sks is a crappy hunting rifle. Built for war not hunting with a crappy stock, sights and triggers. Other military rifles might be a better choice but not as good as a rifle designed purely for hunting in mind. 7.62x39 is fine out to 100ish yards sure but a 30-30 in say 336 will be more effective in havesting a bear imho cause the rifle is way better allowing for better shot placement. .22 seems to be a more popular choice on the charlottes (Haida Gwaii). A rifle and more ammo than you'll ever need at a price lower than a CZ527 for those tiny deer.
And for the OP no an sks isn't good for a bear
 
Rifter said:
I agree with you, in that the Mosin is a better choice overall for hunting, And I own a SKS and a Mosin 91/30. But disagree with you about the SKS being a bad choice for hunting in all situations, not as good a choice as the mosin for sure especially for larger game, but not a bad one either for smaller game.

But this depends on your SKS I suppose. Need to be able to hit the target. I have a good specimen purchased from Corwin arms that seems unrefurbished and lightly used when I got it, wasn't even any wear marks on the bolt or bolt carrier, shoots 2-3MOA all day long even when steaming hot, and with the 2" butt plate extension($10) is not uncomfortable to shoot. Bottom line is if you are only hunting deer sized game at out to 200 yards the SKS is a fine choice. For larger game or Longer shots though, ill grab the Mosin everytime.

Another good thing about the SKS as its bullet proof, im pretty sure I could run it over with my truck and it would still function, not sure how many modern rifles could say the same, when out in the bush reliability is a key selling point for me. Ive been with people who have had rifle issues on a hunt and had it stop them from making a kill, I don't see that being a issue no matter what you do to a SKS. There might be a better semi auto hunting rifle than the SKS, but not for $200-$250.
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i like a SKS for when it's wet and ugly out why beat the hell out of a good hunting rifle when you know your rifles is going to get the #### kicked out of it
a SKS is the best rile to beat up
 
Rifter, I think you are pretty much agreeing with the last sentence of my previous post. For the price, and assuming that the gun must be a semi-auto (although why should that be the case?), the SKS is the only choice. Remove the semi-auto criterion, and any number of other guns, milsurps or used commercial rifles, become demonstrably superior.

So, although I tried hard not to say the SKS was a "bad" choice (especially if you "need" a semi-auto), I do believe that almost anything else is a better choice! :)
 
Love my SKS. I have complete faith in it out to about 125 yards. Totally stock, no scope, no bipod. Original trigger and magazine. There is not a black bear in Ontario I would back down from when armed with that gun. I have these cartridges to use. I have no doubt they will do the job.



Darryl
 
i wouldn't shoot a black bear with an sks unless it was my last option and it was in defense. mind you, we have some big bears around these parts
deer, why not, they don't have teeth and claws LOL
there are so many other better choices out there. Do the animals you hunt a favour and get a good hunting tool with some good energy behind it.
when I first started hunting some 20+years ago, I "was" one of those guys with not many hunting rifle choices in my locker, or so I thought. I had my dad's ol .303 and a pile of sks rifles, a bren gun , a steyr aug and a trw m14. I took the sks on my hunting trips for bear , moose and deer. I was not a very successful hunter in those days, have no mentors, and in hindsight, I'm glad an animal didn't present itself for a shot , other than a grouse I cleanly beheaded with x39 at 10 yards HAHA

anyhow, my first deer, on my 4rth year as a hunter, came by way of my dad's ol .303 no1 mk3 enfield. I've taken a pile of animals with that rifle over the years. These days I own a good selection of hunting arms so have choices. Nowadays, would I hunt with an sks? if I had to I suppose, sure it will kill deer and such but unless you are an experienced hunter and accurate with the sks in yer hands..... I dunno if it's a good choice, especially if it is in the hands of a novice or inexperienced hunter.
I like to kill my animals as fast and clean as possible with little or no room for error that could cause the animal to suffer longer than it needs to. Not trying to preach the "do what I do" routine, but I don't agree with new hunters running around the bush trying to make a semi auto rifle not known for it's accuracy and shooting a light bullet, into a do all hunting rifle.

I'd use an sks for medium to small sized deer like BC coastal blacktails and sitkas , that's about it.
 
i would think he is going have a opportunity to shoot other rifles and hope someone will take him under ther wing even if it's just going out to do a bit of shooting we have all been where he is and without guidance and meteors how good of a hunter would we be
 
carverk said:
i would think he is going have a opportunity to shoot other rifles and hope someone will take him under ther wing even if it's just going out to do a bit of shooting we have all been where he is and without guidance and meteors how good of a hunter would we be
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so true, having a mentor is the best thing for a new hunter. I never had a hunting mentor , I learned to hunt by trial and error and I came out of it a pretty 1/2 decent hunter and fill my freezer every year ;)
 
Its funny that not too many decades ago people learned how to use what they had due to lack of options.

Today we endlessly debate on what we think is the ideal. Way things are going with the economy more and more people are going to be forced to get the job done with what they have due to increasing lack of disposable income.

Bull moose head shots with an SKS and Mexican Match x39 anyone ? Its coming out of necessity eventually.
 
I have taken a few bears, mule deer, and white tails with the 30 caliber (.308), 150 grain pro hunter spire point in my 7.62x39 ruler hawkeye compact. They penetrate very well and kill effectively out to 100 yards with out issue. Accuracy is around 1-1/4 to 1-1/2" at 100 yards.
We have shot a few 400+ pound boars with this combo. No issues.

As it has been said OVER and OVER again, shot placement is key.

A quality hunting bullet placed in the heart/lungs with the 7.62x39 will kill faster than any magnum in the guts, plain and simple.
 
jjohnwm said:
Rifter, I think you are pretty much agreeing with the last sentence of my previous post. For the price, and assuming that the gun must be a semi-auto (although why should that be the case?), the SKS is the only choice. Remove the semi-auto criterion, and any number of other guns, milsurps or used commercial rifles, become demonstrably superior.

So, although I tried hard not to say the SKS was a "bad" choice (especially if you "need" a semi-auto), I do believe that almost anything else is a better choice! :)
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Semi auto can come in very handy for quick follow up shots, when using a smaller cartridge like the 7,62x39 this is a key point IMO. But a more powerful bolt gun(like a mosin) quick follow up shots become less important, unless your aim is bad and your shot is off most anything you shoot with a 7.62x54R should fall down hard.

I think im just partial to the SKS because its similar in performance to a 30-30, and ive done most of my hunting with a old lever 30-30 so im used to intermediate cartridge power, and I know what it can and cant do.

Ive yet to take a animal with the Mosin but im hoping to change that in a few months.
 
dthunter said:
I have taken a few bears, mule deer, and white tails with the 30 caliber (.308), 150 grain pro hunter spire point in my 7.62x39 ruler hawkeye compact. They penetrate very well and kill effectively out to 100 yards with out issue. Accuracy is around 1-1/4 to 1-1/2" at 100 yards.
We have shot a few 400+ pound boars with this combo. No issues.

As it has been said OVER and OVER again, shot placement is key.

A quality hunting bullet placed in the heart/lungs with the 7.62x39 will kill faster than any magnum in the guts, plain and simple.
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Bingo. Nuff said.:)
 
I load .311 /150gr Sierra's with either H4198 or IMR 4198 in my CZ 527 for larger game............Harold
 
Boomer said:
Sometimes 3/4 ton . . .
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You mentioned a 500 pound bear and then half ton... I believe the discussion is 7.62X39 on black bears... if it were on grizzly or polar bears, the responses would likely be more animated...
 
Rugdoc said:
But what is the value of a rifle that you can "shoot and shoot and shoot until you know it like the back of your hand and it becomes an extension of you" if all you can get is shotgun-like patterns at 50 yards?

Doesn't seem like to you can learn much about shooting an accurate rife accurately that way. It doesn't have to be a "Rolls Royce" rifle either. A $200 Tradex hunting rifle plus a scope will be fine.
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You must have only had access to particularly beat to piss SKS's. Shim the action of a half decent SKS, and 3&1/2" groups at 100 yards are easily doable with off the shelf commercial ammo. That's plenty accurate enough for heart/lung shots out to 150 yards.

And if you don't believe me, I'll gladly blow a guest pass to the range next time you're in the Calgary area.
 
hoytcanon said:
You mentioned a 500 pound bear and then half ton... I believe the discussion is 7.62X39 on black bears... if it were on grizzly or polar bears, the responses would likely be more animated...
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Greg,

i didnt want to put my salt on it but as a kid i went on some huntings for grizzly (european brown bears) not the biggest size for sure and on wild boars too, some hunters were using sks (it was the yugo ones so maybe better lol) with the 10 rounds capacity.

i may add that i have known two local hunter-guides that worked in the far east of Siberia and they preferred the sks to the mosin.

in none of those cases that will be my choice but if i have to use an sks on a black bear why not?
 
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