'What lion?' Zimbabweans ask, amid global Cecil circus

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Still alive said:
If you want a good read, go look up Dr. Walt Palmer in Minn. on YELP!
I have never seen such a congregation of PETA, lefties and vegans in one place!
At this point, it doesn't matter what the truth is. The guy's life is completely ruined.
Judged, juried and executed.
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I think the lion's life was ruined more than the dentist's life. I am not trolling, just my opinion. I've hunted for over 40 yrs and have never been a fan of hunting something you don't eat. You eat lion roast? Then by all means hunt lion.
 
bcexmod said:
I think the lion's life was ruined more than the dentist's life. I am not trolling, just my opinion. I've hunted for over 40 yrs and have never been a fan of hunting something you don't eat. You eat lion roast? Then by all means hunt lion.
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While the meat was wasted on this hunt, most safari trophy hunts the meat is given to the locals who are usually happy to receive it. I would like to think that the way this one went down is the rarity rather than the norm.
 
ljones said:
While the meat was wasted on this hunt, most safari trophy hunts the meat is given to the locals who are usually happy to receive it. I would like to think that the way this one went down is the rarity rather than the norm.
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I hope so too. As hunters/gun owners, it seems like we have a constant uphill battle.
 
bcexmod said:
I think the lion's life was ruined more than the dentist's life. I am not trolling, just my opinion. I've hunted for over 40 yrs and have never been a fan of hunting something you don't eat. You eat lion roast? Then by all means hunt lion.
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In your 40 years of hunting, have you shot a wolf? Have you shot a coyote? Do you engage in varmint hunting? If an animal dies in nature, the meat is not wasted, there are birds, animals and organisms that depend on it for their survival. This idea that you have to eat everything you shoot is short sighted, and while meat hunting is an viable reason to hunt, its not the only reason. Hunting the big 5 has never been about meat, even in cases where the meat is utilized. That said, on any typical African hunt, animals are taken for camp food as well as for their trophy value. Trophy hunting, when done correctly, is a higher standard of hunting than is meat hunting due to it's selective nature. If you are hunting a specific animal, your chances of success are far less than the meat hunter who is unconcerned whether his meat comes from a young, old, female, pregnant female, breeding, or a non breeding male. Not only is the trophy typically an old nonbreeding male, but it's value as a trophy is also considered, and dozens of animals might be passed up before the right trophy is found.
 
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I have nothing against trophy hunting as long as it is legal and carried out as a proper cull with the money paid for permits going back into the preservation of the species. Now if they were going to take that money to help people instead i sure as hell wouldn't spend it. Id rather help animals than people with my hunting money. Let the feckin christian children fund do their own dirty work.
Also is their a reason why that guy was banned other than because he had views differing from the cgn norm? Seems socialist government like if his opinions got him banned.
 
Stray03 said:
I have nothing against trophy hunting as long as it is legal and carried out as a proper cull with the money paid for permits going back into the preservation of the species. Now if they were going to take that money to help people instead i sure as hell wouldn't spend it. Id rather help animals than people with my hunting money. Let the feckin christian children fund do their own dirty work.
Also is their a reason why that guy was banned other than because he had views differing from the cgn norm? Seems socialist government like if his opinions got him banned.
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If the locals don't see the benefit of having those animals around, why would they support conservation practices? They are more likely to set out snare lines for their own meat, and do their best to kill any animal that threatens their farms or safety. It wouldn't be long before the major species of game disappeared if that was everyone's attitude.
 
Stray03 said:
I have nothing against trophy hunting as long as it is legal and carried out as a proper cull with the money paid for permits going back into the preservation of the species. Now if they were going to take that money to help people instead i sure as hell wouldn't spend it. Id rather help animals than people with my hunting money. Let the feckin christian children fund do their own dirty work.
Also is their a reason why that guy was banned other than because he had views differing from the cgn norm? Seems socialist government like if his opinions got him banned.
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Do you really expect people to take any of your opinions seriously when you post crap like that? :confused:
 
Boomer said:
If the locals don't see the benefit of having those animals around, why would they support conservation practices? They are more likely to set out snare lines for their own meat, and do their best to kill any animal that threatens their farms or safety. It wouldn't be long before the major species of game disappeared if that was everyone's attitude.
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They do it anyways. Im all for a population destroying what they have and then suffering. We are only destroying the earth until we can no longer be supported. After that everything else will go back to a new normal. People deserve all they get.
 
I never have shot a wolf or coyote. I've never varmint hunted although I have considered it. I didn't say you have to eat everything you shoot. My opinion is that you should generally only shoot what you intend to eat. I agree that meat hunting isn't the only reason to hunt. However, hunting for trophy alone isn't a good reason to hunt. Taking a life is a very profound act and I cannot agree to doing so for personal satisfaction alone. Had I seen a coyote or wolf while deer hunting, I believe I would have taken a shot. This would have been a primal act , defending my "territory" from other predators. Happens in nature all the time.
With regard to the selective nature of the trophy hunt, taking the biggest and "best" is not wise. That isn't how nature excels. Generally(and we all know this), the weaker animals are killed. They are easier prey to hunt and therefore take less energy to kill as well as possibly reducing the risk of injury to the predator. When we kill the strongest male of the herd, we don't do the herd any favours.
You mentioned that generally the trophy is an old non breeding male. Are you sure of this? I have no info on that. Cheers!
Boomer said:
In your 40 years of hunting, have you shot a wolf? Have you shot a coyote? Do you engage in varmint hunting? If an animal dies in nature, the meat is not wasted, there are birds, animals and organisms that depend on it for their survival. This idea that you have to eat everything you shoot is short sighted, and while meat hunting is an viable reason to hunt, its not the only reason. Hunting the big 5 has never been about meat, even in cases where the meat is utilized. That said, on any typical African hunt, animals are taken for camp food as well as for their trophy value. Trophy hunting, when done correctly, is a higher standard of hunting than is meat hunting due to it's selective nature. If you are hunting a specific animal, your chances of success are far less than the meat hunter who is unconcerned whether his meat comes from a young, old, female, pregnant female, breeding, or a non breeding male. Not only is the trophy typically an old nonbreeding male, but it's value as a trophy is also considered, and dozens of animals might be passed up before the right trophy is found.
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bcexmod said:
I never have shot a wolf or coyote. I've never varmint hunted although I have considered it. I didn't say you have to eat everything you shoot. My opinion is that you should generally only shoot what you intend to eat. I agree that meat hunting isn't the only reason to hunt. However, hunting for trophy alone isn't a good reason to hunt. Taking a life is a very profound act and I cannot agree to doing so for personal satisfaction alone. Had I seen a coyote or wolf while deer hunting, I believe I would have taken a shot. This would have been a primal act , defending my "territory" from other predators. Happens in nature all the time.
With regard to the selective nature of the trophy hunt, taking the biggest and "best" is not wise. That isn't how nature excels. Generally(and we all know this), the weaker animals are killed. They are easier prey to hunt and therefore take less energy to kill as well as possibly reducing the risk of injury to the predator. When we kill the strongest male of the herd, we don't do the herd any favours.
You mentioned that generally the trophy is an old non breeding male. Are you sure of this? I have no info on that. Cheers!
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What a bunch of double speak.
 
bcexmod said:
I never have shot a wolf or coyote. I've never varmint hunted although I have considered it. I didn't say you have to eat everything you shoot. My opinion is that you should generally only shoot what you intend to eat. I agree that meat hunting isn't the only reason to hunt. However, hunting for trophy alone isn't a good reason to hunt. Taking a life is a very profound act and I cannot agree to doing so for personal satisfaction alone. Had I seen a coyote or wolf while deer hunting, I believe I would have taken a shot. This would have been a primal act , defending my "territory" from other predators. Happens in nature all the time.
With regard to the selective nature of the trophy hunt, taking the biggest and "best" is not wise. That isn't how nature excels. Generally(and we all know this), the weaker animals are killed. They are easier prey to hunt and therefore take less energy to kill as well as possibly reducing the risk of injury to the predator. When we kill the strongest male of the herd, we don't do the herd any favours.
You mentioned that generally the trophy is an old non breeding male. Are you sure of this? I have no info on that. Cheers!
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If meat was the primary reason to hunt, hunting would make no sense. By the time you pay for your gear, and license, and in some cases an outfitter, its cheaper to go to the local supermarket. Therefore, honesty compels us to admit that all sport hunting, as opposed to subsistence hunting, is for personal satisfaction alone, meat or trophy is just a bonus. Dall sheep is an interesting point in this discussion. The meat is amongst the best wild meat in the world, yet there is a minimum horn length for a legal animal. So is it trophy hunting or is it meat hunting? The meat hunter has to access the trophy quality as does the trophy hunter.

Whether or not a trophy animal is non-breeding depends on the specific animal and on the breed. An old lion will have been driven off by younger stronger rivals, but it is possible to kill a trophy lion that is still breeding. Trophy buffalo, tend to separate from the herd, "dugga boys" is how they are referred to, and these are non breeding. However, trophy buffalo are sometimes selected from a herd, and it might be expected that these bulls are breeding. A trophy moose, is probably a breeding animal.

Genetics in a region or zone can be upset, and it might take generations for it to recover. But this is better understood today than in earlier times, and quotas and limits are set accordingly. Weaker animals will succumb first to a difficult winter or to a drought, and this can also includes calves/cubs which come from very good genetic lines. Natural predation, is less selective, and sometimes its the stronger animal that is taken by predators, and this is certainly the case with meat hunters, the only animal they'll turn down is one that appears to be sick. The good news, is that morbidity rates, whether from weather, predation, or hunting, benefit the birth rate, and the birth rate seems to increase to a maximum when morbidity reaches a certain percentage, I thought it was 30%, but I don't remember the exact number.
 
I totally agree regarding the cost of gear , travel etc. I've thought about this before as well and generally I try to keep my hunting close to my home. I live in a rural area so I can walk to my hunting area. Boomer, sounds like you know what you are talking about.
Boomer said:
If meat was the primary reason to hunt, hunting would make no sense. By the time you pay for your gear, and license, and in some cases an outfitter, its cheaper to go to the local supermarket. Therefore, honesty compels us to admit that all sport hunting, as opposed to subsistence hunting, is for personal satisfaction alone, meat or trophy is just a bonus. Dall sheep is an interesting point in this discussion. The meat is amongst the best wild meat in the world, yet there is a minimum horn length for a legal animal. So is it trophy hunting or is it meat hunting? The meat hunter has to access the trophy quality as does the trophy hunter.

Whether or not a trophy animal is non-breeding depends on the specific animal and on the breed. An old lion will have been driven off by younger stronger rivals, but it is possible to kill a trophy lion that is still breeding. Trophy buffalo, tend to separate from the herd, "dugga boys" is how they are referred to, and these are non breeding. However, trophy buffalo are sometimes selected from a herd, and it might be expected that these bulls are breeding. A trophy moose, is probably a breeding animal.

Genetics in a region or zone can be upset, and it might take generations for it to recover. But this is better understood today than in earlier times, and quotas and limits are set accordingly. Weaker animals will succumb first to a difficult winter or to a drought, and this can also includes calves/cubs which come from very good genetic lines. Natural predation, is less selective, and sometimes its the stronger animal that is taken by predators, and this is certainly the case with meat hunters, the only animal they'll turn down is one that appears to be sick. The good news, is that morbidity rates, whether from weather, predation, or hunting, benefit the birth rate, and the birth rate seems to increase to a maximum when morbidity reaches a certain percentage, I thought it was 30%, but I don't remember the exact number.
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Stray03 said:
Also is their a reason why that guy was banned other than because he had views differing from the cgn norm? Seems socialist government like if his opinions got him banned.
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Multiple accounts. Wasn't hard to figure that one out...
 
bcexmod said:
I never have shot a wolf or coyote. I've never varmint hunted although I have considered it. I didn't say you have to eat everything you shoot. My opinion is that you should generally only shoot what you intend to eat. I agree that meat hunting isn't the only reason to hunt. However, hunting for trophy alone isn't a good reason to hunt. Taking a life is a very profound act and I cannot agree to doing so for personal satisfaction alone. Had I seen a coyote or wolf while deer hunting, I believe I would have taken a shot. This would have been a primal act , defending my "territory" from other predators. Happens in nature all the time.
With regard to the selective nature of the trophy hunt, taking the biggest and "best" is not wise. That isn't how nature excels. Generally(and we all know this), the weaker animals are killed. They are easier prey to hunt and therefore take less energy to kill as well as possibly reducing the risk of injury to the predator. When we kill the strongest male of the herd, we don't do the herd any favours.
You mentioned that generally the trophy is an old non breeding male. Are you sure of this? I have no info on that. Cheers!
Click to expand...
The main reason why I personally hunt is the actual act of pursuit, to read sign, observe animal behavior, to outwit my prey. While in the wilderness conducting this act, I'm solely targeting a whitetail buck of at least 160 B&C, or a mule buck of at least 190 B&C. If I cannot find this said animal, I will then end the hunting season with the tag and license in my pocket. Many years my son and I went home without filling our tags, case in point, my son passed-up two 160 class whitetails on the last day last year. Many animals have lived and passed on their genes because I'm a trophy hunter. Do I eat the meat, seldom. Do I need the meat, absolutely not. However, when I do harvest an animal, it is cut and wrapped by a butcher, at my own expense, and given to a needy family. I will continue to be a trophy hunter and practice this act as long as this privilege is allowed.
 
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