FL resizing issues, LEE dies, FC brass...
- Thread starter bsand
- Start date
We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world where no two chambers and dies are exactly the same. Meaning you could have tight snug headspace and a bad long die or tall shell holder. If you want to be precise you measure the fired headspace length of the case and then only push the shoulder back .001 to .002 on a bolt action.
Below is a exaggerated example of full length resizing, in a normal situation you resized the case .001 to .002 shorter than the red dotted line or fired length. "BUT" sometimes you will size the case and still be "ABOVE" the red dotted line, and this "might' be caused by a bad die, a defective shell holder, etc. Most of the time the die will push the shoulder back too far and be near the green dotted line and shorten case life.
If I was you I would place a fired case in your case gauge and see where the rear of the case rests above the marks. The problem with this is many times the case is too fat to fit inside the gauge after it has been fired.
Below is a .223/5.56 case that was fired in my AR15 in my Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.
Below is the same case after full length resizing and .003 shoulder bump or shoulder set back.
Bottom line with the Hornady gauge you can measure your fired case and then your resized case and know exactly where you are.
Below my retired Wilson gauge/paper weight and pen holder. (hint, hint)
Below is a exaggerated example of full length resizing, in a normal situation you resized the case .001 to .002 shorter than the red dotted line or fired length. "BUT" sometimes you will size the case and still be "ABOVE" the red dotted line, and this "might' be caused by a bad die, a defective shell holder, etc. Most of the time the die will push the shoulder back too far and be near the green dotted line and shorten case life.
If I was you I would place a fired case in your case gauge and see where the rear of the case rests above the marks. The problem with this is many times the case is too fat to fit inside the gauge after it has been fired.
Below is a .223/5.56 case that was fired in my AR15 in my Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.
Below is the same case after full length resizing and .003 shoulder bump or shoulder set back.
Bottom line with the Hornady gauge you can measure your fired case and then your resized case and know exactly where you are.
Below my retired Wilson gauge/paper weight and pen holder. (hint, hint)
I agree with the others and as usual Ed really explains it well. See if they chamber. Loading for a bolt for range use doesn't require all the safety precautions that a semi does. If a case comes out a little oversize but can still chamber, its good to go so long as its not the neck pinching in the throat. A proud primer in a neck sized, fire formed case is not technically safe and will cause binding. Other than that its just not necessary to size cases right down to min SAAMI specs. If they chamber they will fire and extract just fine.
"Someone" had to make up for sunrays answers.
Aw, you really miss him since he got booted, don't you Ed
Yes, you are just complicating matters and being unduly hard on yourself.
You do not need any type of headspace gauge. All that matters is if the sized and reloaded cartridges will fit easily in the chamber of your rifle.
Resize the case, then immediately see if it will go into your chamber and the bolt will close without extra effort.
Next, seat a bullet into the sized case and see if the bolt will close on your dummy load. If it doesn't, seat it deeper, by very small amounts, until the bolt will close. Give the bullet a slight amount more, so it has some clearance, load up and shoot away.
I should add that if you attempt to crimp the bullet with the seating die, you may make a lot more complications.
You do not need any type of headspace gauge. All that matters is if the sized and reloaded cartridges will fit easily in the chamber of your rifle.
Resize the case, then immediately see if it will go into your chamber and the bolt will close without extra effort.
Next, seat a bullet into the sized case and see if the bolt will close on your dummy load. If it doesn't, seat it deeper, by very small amounts, until the bolt will close. Give the bullet a slight amount more, so it has some clearance, load up and shoot away.
I should add that if you attempt to crimp the bullet with the seating die, you may make a lot more complications.
"Someone" had to make up for sunrays answers.
Don't be too hard on him. Remember, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
What can I say, I have engineer traits! Well I should say technologist traits until next July(going back to uni for mech engineering yr3 and 4).
Sorry for the extra post, but UPDATE!!!
All the re-fl sized brass fits my chamber! After further checking its under flush with the headspace gauge!! BOOYAAAH!!! I bet you the shells wouldn't have worked, because I re-sized some LC brass from 2-3 years ago (green brass) and they wouldn't chamber either... this has me thinking I should re-size those and try again..
I also spot checked all the neck-sized FC brass and they all fit! I tested the first 30, then 1 every 5 then 1 every 10... I'm quite pleased with me self! obviously all 100 lapua fit perfectly, even though I had to neck size some (3 came dented badly)
All the re-fl sized brass fits my chamber! After further checking its under flush with the headspace gauge!! BOOYAAAH!!! I bet you the shells wouldn't have worked, because I re-sized some LC brass from 2-3 years ago (green brass) and they wouldn't chamber either... this has me thinking I should re-size those and try again..
I also spot checked all the neck-sized FC brass and they all fit! I tested the first 30, then 1 every 5 then 1 every 10... I'm quite pleased with me self! obviously all 100 lapua fit perfectly, even though I had to neck size some (3 came dented badly)
Be aware of case springback when FL resizing heavy military 7.62 brass for a .308 Win. 7.62 NATO chambers run larger than .308 Win, especially in machine guns. For more check the thread that I started on this in the Main Battle Rifles Forum.
Also don't forget what H4831 said and remember that there are simple ways to do things. After H4831 post it made me think of all the "gadgets" I have on my reloading bench now and what I had when I started reloading. You have some very senior members here that have been reloading for a long time and who have a lot of horse sense and experience.
Well - When the OP graduates from engineering school he will be taught a phrase coined by Rudyard Kipling - "to battle with the perversity of inanimate objects". I think this is most relevant to reloading, and specialty reloading gismos.
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Yep, the best gauge is your rifle's chamber.
The gauge you have (had?) is meant to tell you whether the case will chamber in any chamber or not.
They say you can use it to check case length but that's not entirely true. Long story but if you're on an engineering path, you may want to explore the issue.
Check the case length after trimming to rule out (or in) the pilot wear.
They say you can use it to check case length but that's not entirely true. Long story but if you're on an engineering path, you may want to explore the issue.
Check the case length after trimming to rule out (or in) the pilot wear.
bsand
I'm still using the same Rockchucker press I bought in 1973 and it has a little slop in it. So I like to have the die make hard contact with the shell holder and the press reach cam over. The problem with this is it will over resize the case and push the shoulder back too far and create excess head clearance. To compensate for this I bought Redding competition shell holders, these still allow the press to cam over and let me control the amount of shoulder bump.
Below on the left is a +.004 competition shell holder and on the right is a standard RCBS shell holder. In simple terms the competition shell holders will not push the case into the die as far as a standard shell holder will, meaning less shoulder bump. There are five shell holders in a set in .002 increments +.002 through +.010. And you simply start with the +.010 shell holder and work down in size until the desired shoulder bump is achieved.
The shell holders above are for .223/5.56 cases and I'm using the +.004 shell holder to resize once fired Lake City 5.56 cases fired in a assortment of different M16 rifles. And now to my main point, I'm using a small base die and at the top of the ram stroke I'm counting to four before lowering the ram. And pausing at the top of the ram stroke lets the brass know who is the boss and you have far less brass spring back. Meaning your resized cases will all be closer to the same case headspace length, and not vary as much in length.
The same thing could be accomplished by placing a .004 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and screwing the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge/shell holder. But if you have an older press with slop and flex the feeler gauge method is not as accurate as the competition shell holders.
I'm still using the same Rockchucker press I bought in 1973 and it has a little slop in it. So I like to have the die make hard contact with the shell holder and the press reach cam over. The problem with this is it will over resize the case and push the shoulder back too far and create excess head clearance. To compensate for this I bought Redding competition shell holders, these still allow the press to cam over and let me control the amount of shoulder bump.
Below on the left is a +.004 competition shell holder and on the right is a standard RCBS shell holder. In simple terms the competition shell holders will not push the case into the die as far as a standard shell holder will, meaning less shoulder bump. There are five shell holders in a set in .002 increments +.002 through +.010. And you simply start with the +.010 shell holder and work down in size until the desired shoulder bump is achieved.
The shell holders above are for .223/5.56 cases and I'm using the +.004 shell holder to resize once fired Lake City 5.56 cases fired in a assortment of different M16 rifles. And now to my main point, I'm using a small base die and at the top of the ram stroke I'm counting to four before lowering the ram. And pausing at the top of the ram stroke lets the brass know who is the boss and you have far less brass spring back. Meaning your resized cases will all be closer to the same case headspace length, and not vary as much in length.
The same thing could be accomplished by placing a .004 feeler gauge on top of the shell holder and screwing the die down until it contacts the feeler gauge/shell holder. But if you have an older press with slop and flex the feeler gauge method is not as accurate as the competition shell holders.
