Who has one? How do you like it? I can't decide between the 5-25 or 12-50. I'd like to stick with mil/mil I was thinking of the P3, however would the smaller hash marks have any benefits for paper punching up to 600 meters?
S&B PMII 12-50x56 Who has one?
- Thread starter bsand
- Start date
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I'll get back to you in about 3 weeks.
I looked hard at one about 8 months ago, and was discouraged by comments about eye relief and mirage. thhhhhthhhthhhhtthhhh (that's a fart noise).
Since then my buddy has purchased and 52X NF, and loves it. Mirage is an issue on a hot day, but that isn't ever gonna change. Physics is physics. This has re-ignited my interest.
I had some PM's into an EE member who said he'd let me know if he had and offer on an sport fein, and he didn't - big thanks for that, Chief.
I was lucky enough to to find a 12-50 PMII 1/8" MOA with P4F on Canadian Gun Traders, and the seller has been kind enough to make the sale work. He had it on a NEAR Alpha mount, so I bought that too.
From what I've read, people love them. Their spotting scope budget is now improved, the mirage isn't as bad as it may seem, and I've seen ZERO concerns about eye relief.
I can't wait to get mine. I think the 12-50 was the first in the 34mm (or bigger tube'd) line of spottingscopes-onrifles that we'll see. The March 80x is seeing good reviews. I don't see why they aren't more common. If seeing the dot at 1000 is good, why not double it and make it better??
Now, I've heard that pro's - real pro's (as in SEALS, and JTF, and CDN snipers) - like a fixed 12x, or at max a 25x, to make 2000yd shots. I've looked at targets that far out, and they are SMALL!!! Again, if you can have bigger, why not take it??? I suppose that there's a LOT more to know about sniping than the world's longest kill, so maybe that's why.
-J.
edit - if 600M is your limit, 25x is fine. If you're living/shooting in meters, then mrad is the way to go. 1 MRAD at 100M = 10cm, period. It's the only round number in this game. 1.036", or whatever an MOA is, is dumb.
I looked hard at one about 8 months ago, and was discouraged by comments about eye relief and mirage. thhhhhthhhthhhhtthhhh (that's a fart noise).
Since then my buddy has purchased and 52X NF, and loves it. Mirage is an issue on a hot day, but that isn't ever gonna change. Physics is physics. This has re-ignited my interest.
I had some PM's into an EE member who said he'd let me know if he had and offer on an sport fein, and he didn't - big thanks for that, Chief.
I was lucky enough to to find a 12-50 PMII 1/8" MOA with P4F on Canadian Gun Traders, and the seller has been kind enough to make the sale work. He had it on a NEAR Alpha mount, so I bought that too.
From what I've read, people love them. Their spotting scope budget is now improved, the mirage isn't as bad as it may seem, and I've seen ZERO concerns about eye relief.
I can't wait to get mine. I think the 12-50 was the first in the 34mm (or bigger tube'd) line of spottingscopes-onrifles that we'll see. The March 80x is seeing good reviews. I don't see why they aren't more common. If seeing the dot at 1000 is good, why not double it and make it better??
Now, I've heard that pro's - real pro's (as in SEALS, and JTF, and CDN snipers) - like a fixed 12x, or at max a 25x, to make 2000yd shots. I've looked at targets that far out, and they are SMALL!!! Again, if you can have bigger, why not take it??? I suppose that there's a LOT more to know about sniping than the world's longest kill, so maybe that's why.
-J.
edit - if 600M is your limit, 25x is fine. If you're living/shooting in meters, then mrad is the way to go. 1 MRAD at 100M = 10cm, period. It's the only round number in this game. 1.036", or whatever an MOA is, is dumb.
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I have one, it's a great scope, the best probably, as i can use it easy at 50X...
A S&B is a tool for life, this one is my load development best scope, you wont regret getting one, i dont use so much my Sightron 10X50 because it's not that clear past 40X but it's one third of the price... JP.
A S&B is a tool for life, this one is my load development best scope, you wont regret getting one, i dont use so much my Sightron 10X50 because it's not that clear past 40X but it's one third of the price... JP.
How does the 5-25 compare say at 300 meters? Would I be able to see bullet holes on a nice cool clear day? I really wished that the dealers had a floor model or two to peer thru. It would make purchasing so much easier/faster so it's kind of a blessing I guess.
The S&B scope resolution is so stellar, i can pick even 223 holes at 300 metres with my 5X25...
With the 12X50 at my private shooting place, 308 holes can be seen at 600 metres on brown cardboards most of the time ( mirages, lighting you millage may vary)...
Cant speak for other scopes, as i did not tested them ... JP.
With the 12X50 at my private shooting place, 308 holes can be seen at 600 metres on brown cardboards most of the time ( mirages, lighting you millage may vary)...
Cant speak for other scopes, as i did not tested them ... JP.
I own 4 S&B PMII's in 5-25x56 and I did own 2 S&B PMII's in 12-50x56, and I personally think the 5-25's were had a better "build quality feel" to them. Holding them both side by side, the 5-25 felt like it was better built. I also had issues with both the 12-50 scopes' parallax - neither would focus past 400m, so I gave them back to Mr Gerlach (CEO of S&B) at the IWA show in Germany in 2011, and they sent me 2 new 5-25 models - much happier with the 5-25. But that was just my opinion - YMMV.
If you do need a scope with huge mag, then get a March X 8-80x56. I have owned a few of them, and they're great scopes too. A lot of benchrest and F-class guys use them with huge success - some world champs too. But the 8-80 is not made in MIL - it comes in 1/8 MOA with 1/4 MOA "indents". Great scope with great glass and unmatched magnification. Only problem with 50x or 80x mag, is when there's a lot of mirage, it's useless at a high mag.
If you do need a scope with huge mag, then get a March X 8-80x56. I have owned a few of them, and they're great scopes too. A lot of benchrest and F-class guys use them with huge success - some world champs too. But the 8-80 is not made in MIL - it comes in 1/8 MOA with 1/4 MOA "indents". Great scope with great glass and unmatched magnification. Only problem with 50x or 80x mag, is when there's a lot of mirage, it's useless at a high mag.
- Location
- calgary alberta
I agree. I purchased my 12x50 PM11 specifically for 1 of my 50 cal rifles, 1 shot convinced me to put it on a 338 simply due to the lacking of eye relief and the cost of replacing a set of prescription glasses.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...uick-Review-and-Comparison-with-S-amp-B-March
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...tron-SVSS-10-50X60-vs-NF-Competition-15-55X52
This will help. The S&B offer some of my favorite glass but eye relief, by todays standards IS short.
Does it work well? You bet... are there options... you bet.
Jerry
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...tron-SVSS-10-50X60-vs-NF-Competition-15-55X52
This will help. The S&B offer some of my favorite glass but eye relief, by todays standards IS short.
Does it work well? You bet... are there options... you bet.
Jerry
Is this on a black or white target? I have a zeiss conquest hd5 5-25x50mm I could barely see bullet holes (30cal) at 200m on black targets that splatter. It was about 25 clear sunny with mirage.
That is in the white only at 300m. Holes in the black I can see at 100m perfectly when I do dot drills (regular printed paper). That sounds about right for your 25X. As soon as mirage comes out all bets are off and its time to break out the spotting scope. Even with the spotter, when things really heat up you're looking at soup.
Ahh it's just gotten harder to choose. I really have zero clue how magnified a 50x is, nor what a 30 cal bullet looks like under 50x at 300 on the black. I'm even more confused about what I want now, than I was when I started this thread (dead set on 12-50).
- Location
- Jameson, SK
I did consider the March, but buying new and paying 4000$+ wasn't a palatable option for me. I emailed a place in Calgary that was listed as a March outlet, but heard nothing back. I've seen no March's available on the EE, but I've seen 2 12-50's S&B's and several 5-25's. Don't forget about the NF 52x competition scope too..... it's not tactical and tough, but my buddy runs one and loves it. It's also a lot less cash.
You're shopping in such an amazing group of scopes you're not gonna go wrong, and they hold they're value extremely well, so if you're unhappy, you can get rid of it.
Jump in, pull the trigger on one, and have some fun!!!
-J.
You're shopping in such an amazing group of scopes you're not gonna go wrong, and they hold they're value extremely well, so if you're unhappy, you can get rid of it.
Jump in, pull the trigger on one, and have some fun!!!
-J.
I have both a S&B 12-50 and the Nightforce Competition 15-55, and they are both great scopes and you really can't go wrong, but I definitely like the S&B more. The S&B is easier to look thru, definitely a bit better glass and easy to get a good sight picture behind, plus a huge thing after I used it the first time is the field of view is huge compared to the Nightforce. Just so much easier to find the targets at long distance without having to turn down mag etc. I know it seems like a small thing but it really is a deal breaker for me.
The Nightforce is much more particular about eye/head position and seems just a little dark at 55x power, but it is a great scope too, just prefer the S&B more. I did not find the Nightforce much cheaper either, got mine thru Hirsch Precision this spring and it was only a couple hundred bucks difference to the Schmidt. The only big knock I have against the S&B is that I am always turning the damn knobs the wrong way, as it is opposite to all my others. You can get the right way knobs on them though.
I did not find the short eye relief an issue, as my S&B is on my 6.5 Creedmoor AI AT, but the Nightforce is totally fine on my 338 MRAD with recoil.
I am in the market for another long range scope, and am only looking at an S&B, (or maybe even the new Sightron?), as I have had 2 of the older S3 10-50 Sightrons, bought from Jerry/Mystic Precision, who was great to deal with, and they are amazing scopes for the price. Don't get me wrong though, the Nightforce is a fantastic scope in it's own right, just that for my eyes and the rifles I want to throw these scopes on, would prefer the S&B.
If anyone wants to trade their S&B for my Nightforce, just to try them out, I'd be willing to work out a trade, throw a few bucks in and swap them.
The Nightforce is much more particular about eye/head position and seems just a little dark at 55x power, but it is a great scope too, just prefer the S&B more. I did not find the Nightforce much cheaper either, got mine thru Hirsch Precision this spring and it was only a couple hundred bucks difference to the Schmidt. The only big knock I have against the S&B is that I am always turning the damn knobs the wrong way, as it is opposite to all my others. You can get the right way knobs on them though.
I did not find the short eye relief an issue, as my S&B is on my 6.5 Creedmoor AI AT, but the Nightforce is totally fine on my 338 MRAD with recoil.
I am in the market for another long range scope, and am only looking at an S&B, (or maybe even the new Sightron?), as I have had 2 of the older S3 10-50 Sightrons, bought from Jerry/Mystic Precision, who was great to deal with, and they are amazing scopes for the price. Don't get me wrong though, the Nightforce is a fantastic scope in it's own right, just that for my eyes and the rifles I want to throw these scopes on, would prefer the S&B.
If anyone wants to trade their S&B for my Nightforce, just to try them out, I'd be willing to work out a trade, throw a few bucks in and swap them.
I'm headed to reliable to buy some varget (5 bucks off!) will talk to them about lead times and options.
So far still towards the 50x. I'm worried about the 25x being I'll spend almost 6k on glass and mounts to only have the same power as my zeiss and unable to see holes past 200m
So far still towards the 50x. I'm worried about the 25x being I'll spend almost 6k on glass and mounts to only have the same power as my zeiss and unable to see holes past 200m
Most people will also tell you that you don't need more mag to shoot long distances then 25x, but I feel that is very individualistic, and for me, bigger mag is definitely my preference.
I am never hunting down moving targets at 50-100 meters, so a scope that'll go down to 3-5x power means nothing for me. Even my higher power scopes never see 10-12x power at the range, even when shooting 100-300 yards, always in that 20-40 ranges. The last time we shot 700-800 yards, my scopes never went below 35 power, so if you can, try to look thru other people's high power scopes before you buy and see if thats what you prefer? I sold all my lower power scopes for just that reason and have never regretted it, but I am a small group paper puncher and long distance steel target shooter, so thats what works for me, maybe you are asking your scopes to do different things?
I am never hunting down moving targets at 50-100 meters, so a scope that'll go down to 3-5x power means nothing for me. Even my higher power scopes never see 10-12x power at the range, even when shooting 100-300 yards, always in that 20-40 ranges. The last time we shot 700-800 yards, my scopes never went below 35 power, so if you can, try to look thru other people's high power scopes before you buy and see if thats what you prefer? I sold all my lower power scopes for just that reason and have never regretted it, but I am a small group paper puncher and long distance steel target shooter, so thats what works for me, maybe you are asking your scopes to do different things?
Actually what your doing is exactly what I want to do. I have membership to a 300 yard range, will start looking for crown land next spring once I need to start stretching past 300 yards (sub moa is goal). But I'm pretty certain I'll need to upgrade barrel and such to get my rifle that precise (factory 5r barrel/action).
