Apprentice Hunters - Should They Share In The Spoils?

[Brad34340]

I will add my first, and only, hunting experience to the discussion.

Several weeks ago, my project manager, who is considered more of a friend than a "boss," took me out hunting for ruffled grouse. I ended up using his extra 12ga, and his ammo, during the hunt because it was clear that I shot his 12 pump much more effectively on skeets the week prior than my 20ga O/U. I offered to compensate for ammo, and even provide the food for the mid-hike lunch. He declined.

We ended up getting 4 grouse. I shot one, he shot the other 3. He showed me how to pluck and gut it to roast over a spit on an open fire. He provided me with all of his knowledge, what to look out for, what to listen for. After the hunt, he handed me the other 3 grouse and said, "Here, take these home, practice what I showed you."

I learned throughout the hike that he hadn't been bird hunting in years. He was just as excited to take a new hunter out as I was to learn. Sure it was great to have some tasty birds to eat, but the whole experience and his generosity was much more satisfying.

If he would have said "You are my apprentice, you deserve nothing" I would have understood, but the fact that he went in the total opposite direction made me feel that had value in the hunt other than "acquiring meat." We both valued what the other person had to offer.

Subsistence hunting may be a different story, but if people don't feel valued then what is the point?

This guy sounds like a gentleman and a class act.
Send him a note and a bottle of whatever he drinks ... I guarantee he will appreciate that .. Almost as much as you appreciate the experience you shared with him.

Great story

 

[woodchopper]

I must say I am unfamiliar with the idea of "shares" in terms of divvying harvested game.
Perhaps it simply isn't a tradition here. Later in life so to speak I encountered hunting buddies baiting deer with apples .. When I heard about it I thought it was an an anomaly -- but turns out lots and lots of people in these parts guard a pile of apples all day.

In terms of game harvested, We only get one tag in NB -- bucks only. Sure hunting partners of mine have guifted me some meat before and vice versa but if say 5 of us in a camp had 2 guys fill tags ... That's 2 guys with full freezers or meat they do with as they please and that includes handing out some venison to whomever they please in quantities they determine.

When my young fella shot his first deer a couple of seasons ago -- he dressed, dragged, skinned his own deer. He also was right beside me boning out the entire animal... And he made all the jerkey too. He was not only willing but proud to deliver choice cuts to our hunting crew -- but no one was expecting their share.
A moose hunt might be a little different I dunno .... but there's a better chance of being drafted into the NHL than drawing a moose tag in NB.

I would be happy to hunt with you.

the whole 'shares' that everyone in the hunting party expect to get from whatever is shot rubs me wrong.

if your out with some guys hunting, you shoot something and do all the work getting it back to camp, then its yours to decide what your doing with it. If your staying in someone elses camp then you should offer the owner of the camp something, and if someone helps you gut and drag it out then you should offer them something. But for someone who is staying at the same camp and just expects to get game for being there that is not right.

if your a poor hunter then try to learn from the sucessfull ones in the camp, if you have a lazy hunter in the camp who never shoots anything or helps out, well they may end up with nothing year after year, perhaps they will take on the job as camp cook.

 

[Ardent]

You guys just nailed it, there needn't be a judiciary committee and paperwork to arrange "shares" (I'd never heard of meat discussed so categorically and bureaucratically prior to this thread), to 90% of hunters what's right is simply a given.

I hope this "shares" and paper agreements stuff, and even just the rigid formality of divvying up game never makes it out West. I just gave half a mountain goat to a friend because he has four kids and was happy to help cut it, he didn't even hunt. Perhaps "shares" is the future.

 

[ironsighter]

Perhaps "shares" is the future.

If so, then I will continue to hunt alone or with immediate family.

 

[Dogleg]

Perhaps "shares" is the future.

I doubt it, at least out west with deer. With deer I assume that anyone could have had their own just by pulling a trigger. It seems strange that someone would want a share of someone else's animal after he let 100 go. It probably seems different in areas that success rate is very low.

 

[Ardent]

Was going to extend the point to that but was afraid of East/West tensions... This stuff could be bred of much lower game populations and not everybody can tag an animal as you point out, sure hope it's not the future.

 

[9.3mauser]

There's a long tradition of party hunting in Ontario, and Quebec as well from what I understand, but I've never hunted there. The usual tactic is to push bush, either with hounds or human "doggers". Not everybody gets a shot opportunity in those circumstances. It's also legal for one member to shoot several deer and fill other gang members tags. This applies to moose hunting as well. In fact, the system is set up so it virtually punishes those who choose to hunt alone. So the practice evolved to divvy up the harvest equally amongst all.

I think tempermentally I'm more suited to hunting for myself, by myself, so I've given up hunting with large groups, preferring to hunt alone or with a couple of brothers. But it seems impossible to convince people out here that you can be just as successful, sometimes more so, without pushing bush or using hounds.

 

[dogger1]

i beleive that as long as they do threre share they should also share on the day they participted on the hunt. the goal is train them to become full members to partisapate in the future hunts. ive been in camps where we paid for non participating members tags for draws to make the pool and we always gave meet in retern.if it was gor a family that need the meet for sustenance we gave generously .some even gave up there full portions.hunting is a tradition of providing for families in our groups.antler hunters usually go it alone.the best day next to the hunt is the last when everyone helps in some way to process the game.its like a barbque party.when thrres ill gotten feelings that membef is not asked back.

 

[SKS Bitten]

I never knew that meat distribution was so complicated. If it was my son and grandsons (don't have the latter) I'd tell them to take whatever they wanted, and just be happy they let an old phucker come along.

Ditto

They are family. I raised them and would give my life to my kids and grand kids in a heart beat. I invite them over on Sundays and I cook and we all feast on my dime. Life is hard enough, don't sweat over little things.

 

[ronecol]

I never knew that meat distribution was so complicated. If it was my son and grandsons (don't have the latter) I'd tell them to take whatever they wanted, and just be happy they let an old phucker come along.

I totally agree with your sentiments. But I think you're assuming there would only two or three involved. (In fact if that were the case I'd be happy if they took it all as I still have some venison & moose in the freezer from last fall). But what to do when there are also a half dozen non-family members in the group?

 

[ckc123]

I think some of the people who are getting upset by the OP's question don't really understand what he is asking.

What the law requires for regulation, and what a group does for hunting are 2 different things..

I have to admit that after reading the OP's fist post, the thought that came to mind was.. "Id' hate to hunt in that group with thoughts like that".. I would never have gotten into hunting if it were not for the WELCOMING attitude of the group I was with..
my first deer was due to another hunter who called me over to come shoot the deer which was by his post.. He didn't shoot knowing that I was new and wanted me to enjoy the experience. we all got equal share of the meat. even the guys in the camp who were back cooking dinner for the group..

if an extra portion is that important then don't be in the group, and don't invite new hunters into a tradition that is fading fast..

 

[Runningfool]

What the law requires for regulation, and what a group does for hunting are 2 different things..

I have to admit that after reading the OP's fist post, the thought that came to mind was.. "Id' hate to hunt in that group with thoughts like that".. I would never have gotten into hunting if it were not for the WELCOMING attitude of the group I was with..
my first deer was due to another hunter who called me over to come shoot the deer which was by his post.. He didn't shoot knowing that I was new and wanted me to enjoy the experience. we all got equal share of the meat. even the guys in the camp who were back cooking dinner for the group..

if an extra portion is that important then don't be in the group, and don't invite new hunters into a tradition that is fading fast..

Thanks for quoting me AND providing the perfect example of someone not understanding at all what the OP was asking. I don't recall anyone in this entire thread ever mentioning anything about "what the law requires for regulation"?????

I agree that the OP could have explained things better and has created some of the confusion that persists in this thread. I tried to provide examples to illustrate what the OP was getting at but it seems many can't be bothered to read or stop for a moment and think before posting...I guess it's just too easy to skim the original post and then proudly proclaim that their grandfather would have been happy to give them the whole dang deer! For what it's worth, so would have mine and so would I but that has exactly NOTHING to do with what the OP asked.

 

[chisholm]

There's a long tradition of party hunting in Ontario, and Quebec as well from what I understand, but I've never hunted there. The usual tactic is to push bush, either with hounds or human "doggers". Not everybody gets a shot opportunity in those circumstances. It's also legal for one member to shoot several deer and fill other gang members tags. This applies to moose hunting as well. In fact, the system is set up so it virtually punishes those who choose to hunt alone. So the practice evolved to divvy up the harvest equally amongst all.

I think tempermentally I'm more suited to hunting for myself, by myself, so I've given up hunting with large groups, preferring to hunt alone or with a couple of brothers. But it seems impossible to convince people out here that you can be just as successful, sometimes more so, without pushing bush or using hounds.

Well said. I grew up in Onterrible and was raised hunting in a group doing the exact things you stated. My success started when I became the legal age I could get out on my own and separate myself from the group. All of a sudden, I got my first deer when I left and continued on with a good track record after the fact. You couldn't pay me to get back into a group scenario, the group I had hunted with just about turned me off of deer hunting for good, probably why I hunt so much waterfowl now. I do still chase deer once birds are migrated out though!

 

[Brian46]

I totally agree with your sentiments. But I think you're assuming there would only two or three involved. (In fact if that were the case I'd be happy if they took it all as I still have some venison & moose in the freezer from last fall). But what to do when there are also a half dozen non-family members in the group?

do you split each animal 7 ways currently or are the other 6 all part of one other family?

If you feel your system of division is not working or there are two many parties for the amount of game shot, It might be time to talk to everyone you hunt with and if an agreement can not be made, excuse your family from the group as it is clear you are not happy with your amount of "spoils".......

I cant see anyone being happy about splitting a deer more than 2 or 3 ways even if they didn't have families at home.

When/If I join a group for a hunt in my part of the country, no formal agreement of meat division is required

 

[rem338win]

"What a stupid program" was my first thought. Second was, if the kid shoots it then of course. And if my friend helps me haul and work and the meat is attached to my tag, well, I still offer half.

I love hunting today because old men took me and treated me like one of them when they could. I'd always say do the same.

Why can't the kids carry their own gun? Firearms laws don't prevent it.

 

[Runningfool]

Ronecol, forgive me if I'm off base here but it pains me to see so many people getting the wrong idea about your question and by association, you!

My fellow hunters, before you post in this thread, please read the following fictitious example:

I've hunted with a group of 8 guys for 20 years. Some members of this group have been a part of this group as long as I have but like any group, some people go and new people come in. Most years we get 2-3 deer between the 8 of us...some years more, some less but getting deer is just the bonus, the real prize is spending a week in the bush with some buddies. For the past 20 years we have always divided up the meat equally into 8 shares...even that year Billy broke his ankle the week before and was the camp ##### and especially the year when Tom had prostate cancer and couldn't even make it out. This year I'm happy to say my two boys (14 and 15 years old) will be coming out as apprentice hunters - one will be hunting under my tag and one will be hunting under Billy's. They are still in school so their mom is dropping them off at the camp for 2 days of hunting while the rest of us stay and hunt for the remaining 5 days. My question is, if one of my boys is lucky enough to shoot a deer, do we split the meat 8 ways like we always have or do we split it 10 ways? What if the only deer we get is 3 days after my boys leave? 8 ways or 10? My boys are 14 and 15 years old so they don't really need their own "share" of the meat as they will enjoy the share I bring home, but I just want to see what you guys and gals think.

That is roughly how I interpreted the OP's question.

 

[Brian46]

Ronecol, forgive me if I'm off base here but it pains me to see so many people getting the wrong idea about your question and by association, you!

My fellow hunters, before you post in this thread, please read the following fictitious example:

I've hunted with a group of 8 guys for 20 years. Some members of this group have been a part of this group as long as I have but like any group, some people go and new people come in. Most years we get 2-3 deer between the 8 of us...some years more, some less but getting deer is just the bonus, the real prize is spending a week in the bush with some buddies. For the past 20 years we have always divided up the meat equally into 8 shares...even that year Billy broke his ankle the week before and was the camp ##### and especially the year when Tom had prostate cancer and couldn't even make it out. This year I'm happy to say my two boys (14 and 15 years old) will be coming out as apprentice hunters - one will be hunting under my tag and one will be hunting under Billy's. They are still in school so their mom is dropping them off at the camp for 2 days of hunting while the rest of us stay and hunt for the remaining 5 days. My question is, if one of my boys is lucky enough to shoot a deer, do we split the meat 8 ways like we always have or do we split it 10 ways? What if the only deer we get is 3 days after my boys leave? 8 ways or 10? My boys are 14 and 15 years old so they don't really need their own "share" of the meat as they will enjoy the share I bring home, but I just want to see what you guys and gals think.

That is roughly how I interpreted the OP's question.

Seeing as the OP in this case is a grandfather, and the new people joining are grand kids.

I have to ask, what has the group done in the past when someone brings the new generation of hunters in their family along? I cant see this being the first time this has happened, we are after all talking grandkids, so my question to the op is, How was his son/daughter cut into the group and at what age? or anyone elses family member for that matter?

 

[lanis]

Probably the best thing would be to call CFO, and have him put in new regulations and policies for Ontario hunting and game division!

 

[ronecol]

Ronecol, forgive me if I'm off base here but it pains me to see so many people getting the wrong idea about your question and by association, you!

The irony is that seemingly I’m an unfit grandfather and father for different reasons (interpretations): 1. I’m trying to screw the boys out of their share; 2. I’m trying to increase the share the boys get at the expense of others; 3. I’m trying to get more meat for myself. Which is it? I guess it’s how some interpreted or misinterpreted my post. I will say that in those cases a lot more is being read into the post than was intended. Fact is there is no controversy or disagreement or question within our group how the meat is distributed. Everyone does very well and those with large young families get more. And in spite of those that think I’m some kind of greedy bastard, I often don’t take any as with only the two us I often have meat still in the freezer from the previous fall – as I do now. The sarcasm and personal attacks matter not as none of those making them know me or the relationship I have with the boys and the rest of the gang or they wouldn’t have made them. Truth is most would be envious of the esprit de corps within our group which has been together for many many seasons.

I explained briefly in an earlier comment, which was ignored, that it was another post and thread about meat sharing that got me thinking how others might deal with our situation. That’s all there is to it. Nothing more. Another time I’d be inclined to make the scenario a hypothetical one to avoid the personal attacks which are not pleasant in spite of being false.

So now I can’t help wondering if someone will manage to turn this into something negative. Is that being negative?

 

[Glock4ever]

Ronecol, forgive me if I'm off base here but it pains me to see so many people getting the wrong idea about your question and by association, you!

My fellow hunters, before you post in this thread, please read the following fictitious example:

I've hunted with a group of 8 guys for 20 years. Some members of this group have been a part of this group as long as I have but like any group, some people go and new people come in. Most years we get 2-3 deer between the 8 of us...some years more, some less but getting deer is just the bonus, the real prize is spending a week in the bush with some buddies. For the past 20 years we have always divided up the meat equally into 8 shares...even that year Billy broke his ankle the week before and was the camp ##### and especially the year when Tom had prostate cancer and couldn't even make it out. This year I'm happy to say my two boys (14 and 15 years old) will be coming out as apprentice hunters - one will be hunting under my tag and one will be hunting under Billy's. They are still in school so their mom is dropping them off at the camp for 2 days of hunting while the rest of us stay and hunt for the remaining 5 days. My question is, if one of my boys is lucky enough to shoot a deer, do we split the meat 8 ways like we always have or do we split it 10 ways? What if the only deer we get is 3 days after my boys leave? 8 ways or 10? My boys are 14 and 15 years old so they don't really need their own "share" of the meat as they will enjoy the share I bring home, but I just want to see what you guys and gals think.

That is roughly how I interpreted the OP's question.

I think you are not understanding why this thread is problematical. Ronecol's version and your version is how I interpreted "the situation". My point is that the OP is asking an OBJECTIVE question "should meat be split up to include these two new hunters?" in a very SUBJECTIVE situation. Everyone hunts for their own reasons (i.e. trophy hunting, subsistence/meat hunting, camarderie, etc) and with that places different value on meat. Some folks give all of it away and some folks want as much as they can get. NO ANSWER is wrong. These types of threads have hunters post their views on sharing meat and unless somebody is going to write a whole novel about why they share the way they do - it will lead to judgement from other hunters despite the fact that there is no right or wrong way to share as long as the hunting party is amicable to the division of shares.

As an example, I am going to take a new hunter this year and the only thing he will likely pay for is his tag and hunter's education course. I will pay for fuel and likely he will use my rifles and ammo. As we are going on day hunts, food is up to him for snacks but I will likely share what I bring in the truck with him. If we take an animal I will help him clean and butcher the darn thing. I have already decided that he will likely get all of the deer if we get one. The why is because he has a bazillion kids (good mormon I guess) and he is getting into hunting to get extra proten for the table. I really don't need the meat and it makes me feel good to know that I got another hunter into this great sport and helped a fellow out. Does that mean my way is the right way? HECK NO!!! However, if I were to post that some folks may think I am being "holier than thou" while others may laud my approach. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter as long as the party is happy.

Looking at your narrative, maybe the group wants to share the meat with two extra newbies and maybe not. All the background situation doesn't mean a hoot because there is no clear relationship or need described. You state that the two boys don't "need" their share. What if one of the other hunters in the group needs his normal full share? Should he have to give it up to make to new kids feel welcome despite the fact that they don't "need" the meat?

An answer was given that is the best for this situation -- talk about meat sharing before you go hunt. Posting on here how people share is just asking to get attacked because this is the i-net and that is how things roll here...