CZ recoil spring binding?

Lead hammer

Lead hammer

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Hey guys, I already had the s.s guide rod ( bought last year, tried it and went back to plastic shortly after ) ) and just purchased and received the CZ buffers for it and installed it again. I noticed the springs I tried, bind a bit from the extra thickness of the buffer. Ar you guys finding this a problem? Are you cutting coils off the springs to compensate? In my Shadow, the plastic guide rod is smother when racking.
Thanks
 
no the buffer is doing a ton of work, the spring is there to get the slide back into battery, the spring box contacts the frame to stop it's motion. The buffer saves the wear and tear on the spring box and frame. And no, there is no need to cut springs, explain how the spring is binding.
 
The spring with the buffer when installed on the slide is not straight and when you rack it, the action feels gritty. Without the buffer the spring is straight and appears to collapse into the spring box nicer.
 
Lead hammer said:
The spring with the buffer when installed on the slide is not straight and when you rack it, the action feels gritty. Without the buffer the spring is straight and appears to collapse into the spring box nicer.
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Then look at why the spring is not seating flat enough against the buffer and fix that. Maybe you just need to lightly grind the last coil so it's flat or perhaps the buffer is wedged into place on an angle.

It might even be something as basic as flipping the recoil spring end for end. Perhaps the one end has the last few coils sitting slightly cattywumpus to the springs axis.
 
The spring fits proper when not compressed maybe I'm too picky lol. Take a spring between your fingers and squish it, at some point it will deflect left or right when not fully supported, like in our Shadow's. I would assume the recoil spring weight is also increased a bit with the buffer installed. No big deal as I have all the weights to choose from here, just want it as smooth as possible.
 
when you install a SS guide rod you must switch to flat wire springs....

I have a stock guide rod with 13lb spring and buffer and have no problems with it (10K since I put a buffer in)

IMHO - SS rod is just a waste of money.....the stock plastic works just fine.
 
pilgrim said:
when you install a SS guide rod you must switch to flat wire springs....

I have a stock guide rod with 13lb spring and buffer and have no problems with it (10K since I put a buffer in)

IMHO - SS rod is just a waste of money.....the stock plastic works just fine.
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CZ Custom says to use wire springs with the s.s. guide rod...........

I do like the plastic one, but have this thing kicking around, so I should give it a good try.
 
Lead hammer said:
The spring fits proper when not compressed maybe I'm too picky lol. Take a spring between your fingers and squish it, at some point it will deflect left or right when not fully supported, like in our Shadow's. I would assume the recoil spring weight is also increased a bit with the buffer installed. No big deal as I have all the weights to choose from here, just want it as smooth as possible.
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Yes, they do jump out to the sides. That's what the guide rod is there to deal with. Assuming a good fit it should support the spring so you don't feel it catching on ridges or rough spots. I took it from your previous post that the spring compressed in a more or less straight forward manner with no strong buckling to the side. Then with the buffer you seem to have said that it now presses out more strongly. At least that's how I read it.
 
Yep, you have it right now.
The guide rod diameter is a lot less than the inside diameter of the spring, it lets it move around more, only noticeable with the buffer in place when the spring is "over compressed" so to speek. If you cut a coil off the spring, I guess the cut end should be away from the buffer.
 
ok, so first off, spring weights don't change because of compression. If that happened when you rack the slide the spring weight would change as the spring compresses. Next, I've got 6 Shadows, all with buffers, all using coil wire springs and I have zero issues, I also have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of rounds through those guns. The buffer protects both the frame and the spring box. DO NOT CUT your recoil spring, that is just dumb. What spring are you using? You realize that when the slide starts to move the spring gets compressed just like it is with the buffer installed. It makes no sense that this would cause an issue. Are you oiling the spring? A dry spring will feel gritty, buffer or not. And please, post pics.
 
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TW25B said:
The spring is doing more than the buffer, ditch the buffer.

TW25B
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This. The CZ pistols do not come with a buffer and don`t need one. If they needed a buffer CZ would sell the guns with one installed. Unless you are going to shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds through your guns over the next 15 years I would not bother with the buffers. Most of us don`t and few do.

Bob
 
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They do sell the guns with the buffer installed, just like they sell them with stainless guide rods. And no, the spring does not do more than the buffer does. The spring is about returning the gun to battery, not about buffering the shock the slide gets when it contacts the frame. On low use guns it's a non issue, on high use guns it's incredibly important. Sure you can get a gun that will run for years without one, but it will get beat up far more than one with one. They also save slidelocks, which take a huge beating in guns without them.
 
Slavex said:
ok, so first off, spring weights don't change because of compression. If that happened when you rack the slide the spring weight would change as the spring compresses. Next, I've got 6 Shadows, all with buffers, all using coil wire springs and I have zero issues, I also have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of rounds through those guns. The buffer protects both the frame and the spring box. DO NOT CUT your recoil spring, that is just dumb. What spring are you using? You realize that when the slide starts to move the spring gets compressed just like it is with the buffer installed. It makes no sense that this would cause an issue. Are you oiling the spring? A dry spring will feel gritty, buffer or not. And please, post pics.
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Looks like they do not stack in weight. After I have time in the afternoon I will try to take some pictures.
From what I understand, cutting a spring coil off will slightly increase the spring weight due to less working coils, but it would decrease the deflection and should make the spring run more inline like it was designed to do.
 
Slavex what CZ pistols come with buffers. Here is what Angus Hobdell had to say about them from the CZ Forum:

`` I have never used them. So have no real feed back. I know I have 40 50k on some guns more then a lot of people will shoot in 3 or 4 lifetimes and have never had and failures.If you like them and they work go for it.
Angus Duhhhh!``(Quote from 2008) The newest thread started on that forum was dated 2011. Not exaxctly a burning subject on CZ owners minds.

Angus is part owner of CZ Custom along with CZ UB. `He also is a world class IPSC shooter. If he does not use them, nobody on this forum would ever need them either. Until this thread I had not noticed anyone on the CZ Forum ever raise the issue. A search of the CZ Forum brought up several old threads with replies indicating they never use them. Some claimed having shot hundreds of thousands of rounds through here guns without impacting the frame or slide.

To the OP. you may be chasing windmills. If the slide is not jamming and the gun goes bang every time I suspect the spring is operating the way it should and you have nothing to worry about. Ditch the buffer and your life with your CZ will return to normal.

Take Care

Bob
 
My older pre-b 75 came to me with a buffer. And it was one well beaten up buffer as well. It was a mess and spread out so much that it was rubbing and holding the slide from moving freely within a few hundred rounds. I removed it and a few thousand rounds later I broke a slide lock. When I replaced the slide lock I also replaced the recoil spring and took the time to make up a buffer (I've got a shop and actually enjoy such tinkering so no point in telling me that I can buy them :d). The new recoil spring has greatly eased the pounding but there's signs of light impact on the new buffer that tells me that it's doing part of the job of avoiding the slide hammering on the frame even if it's a lighter hammering than the previous setup.

I'd suggest that the recoil spring has two functions. Certainly returning the gun to battery and stripping a fresh round along the way is one of them. But the compressing of the spring is also the first and major step in the absorbing of the recoil energy. A thin plastic buffer won't last long if the spring is radically weak for the amount of recoil energy. So the spring plays the more important role with any buffer being the supporting actor to handle the last bit. And if the spring is spot on with its setup the buffer really isn't needed.

Using the buffer without clipping any coils does not increase the spring rate. But it does very slightly increase the amount of pre-load on the spring. And in some cases where the spring is very close to coil binding without the buffer cutting a coil or two away may be needed to avoid coil binding when a buffer is used. Coil binding being the point where the spring is fully collapsed and the coils touch and start to slip around each other. The spring will become beaten up and deformed quickly when that happens with any sort of significant energy being involved. At that point shortening it to avoid binding is the lesser of two evils.

On the other hand when we clip off some coils we do actually increase the spring rate. This being the amount of force needed per distance to compress the spring.

But in the case of a recoil spring with a buffer we may need to clip a bit to save the spring from binding. The trick is to measure stuff up and only clip the spring if it's truly needed.

Buffer or no? I can see using a SLIGHTLY lighter recoil spring with a buffer to enhance the ejection while avoiding beating up the gun. But if one goes too far then the bump on the buffer is going to be felt back through the hands of the shooter as a more radial recoil kick. I'd suggest that a good indicator that one has gone too far being the buffer gets chewed up to the point of needing replacement in only a few hundred rounds.
 
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