All is Not Right in Eotech Land... *UPDATE Getting Worse*
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WeatherdoG
CGN frequent flyer
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- Trenton, ON
Kandahar Airfield did indeed have an offical weather station, some of my very good friends worked there. It hit temperatures in the high 30 and low 40 in the summer with regularity, but nobody recorded a temp of 70 on any offical equipment.
The average temperature swing in Maywand, Kakrez(sp?), Spin Boldak, and Sperwan Ghar from about March to August was 20 degrees from peak heat in the late afternon to max cooling just before sunrise. Average temperatures I saw there in the summer were about 37 in the afternoon and 17 in the morning.
It would be quite a rare thing for a soldier to operate in a temerature range of 80 degrees without doing some rezeroing at some point along the way.
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TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
UPDATE:
From SSD: Apparently, issues surrounding the sights have been brewing since at least Spring. In a recent memorandum to customers obtained by SSD, distributor Elite Defense discloses that EOTech has not been delivering product since April of this year. It’s our understanding that Elite Defense is the single largest distributor of EOTech sights with extensive international sales of the brand. Even more interesting than the secession of deliveries, is that Elite Defense has chosen to terminate their long distributorship. Unfortunately, it seems EOTech has not acknowledged this action, nor Elite Defense’s proposal to convert their customer base to direct sales with EOTech. It’s like they’ve gone radio silent.
From SSD: Apparently, issues surrounding the sights have been brewing since at least Spring. In a recent memorandum to customers obtained by SSD, distributor Elite Defense discloses that EOTech has not been delivering product since April of this year. It’s our understanding that Elite Defense is the single largest distributor of EOTech sights with extensive international sales of the brand. Even more interesting than the secession of deliveries, is that Elite Defense has chosen to terminate their long distributorship. Unfortunately, it seems EOTech has not acknowledged this action, nor Elite Defense’s proposal to convert their customer base to direct sales with EOTech. It’s like they’ve gone radio silent.
Dear Valued Customer,
As you are aware, in April of 2015, EOTech abruptly shut down all deliveries due to, what was described at the time as, a minor production issue.
Upon learning the true extent of the technical issues EOTech is facing, and that the delivery issues will continue, Elite Defense made the determination on Wednesday, October 21, 2015, to terminate our distribution and representation relationship with L-3 EOTech, which will be effective on January 19th, 2016.
We realize that this may be difficult for some of our customers. The termination of our contract with EOTech does not affect our longstanding relationship or our strong commitment to helping you transition your business and begin working with EOTech directly.
Elite Defense has supplied a transition plan to aid EOTech and our customers with a smooth transfer of business. The plan includes solutions to support the completion of all open orders via Elite over the course of the next 90 days, and to help with the process of converting our customers into direct sales channels through EOTech.
To date, we have not received any formal response from EOTech regarding our termination notice or the recommended transition plan. Additionally, EOTech has not communicated how they would like to handle current orders, future orders, or communications with our customers moving forward.
Unless directed otherwise by EOTech, Elite Defense will continue to process orders during the transition until the termination effective date of January, 19th, 2016. All new orders submitted to Elite Defense must include an acknowledgement from the customer stating that they have viewed the Safety of Use Message (SOUM) from USSOCOM and will accept the reduced specification standards of the EOTech sights. Contact your Elite Defense sales representative with any questions about this policy, your current order status or the transfer of future business.
Elite Defense prides itself on providing high value, innovative equipment to our customers. We continue to vet new products and technologies that we will introduce to you for years to come. Elite Defense continues to carry Patagonia, Ops-Core, Gentex, ITW, Tango Down, Diamondhead, Gemtech, Phokus, Wilcox, Drift Innovation, Bravo Company, PrincetonTec, and many more. Be sure to come visit us at Shot Show 2016, booth# 32411. We look forward to seeing you.
Sincerely,
Dennis Finnegan
President
ELITE DEFENSE
As you are aware, in April of 2015, EOTech abruptly shut down all deliveries due to, what was described at the time as, a minor production issue.
Upon learning the true extent of the technical issues EOTech is facing, and that the delivery issues will continue, Elite Defense made the determination on Wednesday, October 21, 2015, to terminate our distribution and representation relationship with L-3 EOTech, which will be effective on January 19th, 2016.
We realize that this may be difficult for some of our customers. The termination of our contract with EOTech does not affect our longstanding relationship or our strong commitment to helping you transition your business and begin working with EOTech directly.
Elite Defense has supplied a transition plan to aid EOTech and our customers with a smooth transfer of business. The plan includes solutions to support the completion of all open orders via Elite over the course of the next 90 days, and to help with the process of converting our customers into direct sales channels through EOTech.
To date, we have not received any formal response from EOTech regarding our termination notice or the recommended transition plan. Additionally, EOTech has not communicated how they would like to handle current orders, future orders, or communications with our customers moving forward.
Unless directed otherwise by EOTech, Elite Defense will continue to process orders during the transition until the termination effective date of January, 19th, 2016. All new orders submitted to Elite Defense must include an acknowledgement from the customer stating that they have viewed the Safety of Use Message (SOUM) from USSOCOM and will accept the reduced specification standards of the EOTech sights. Contact your Elite Defense sales representative with any questions about this policy, your current order status or the transfer of future business.
Elite Defense prides itself on providing high value, innovative equipment to our customers. We continue to vet new products and technologies that we will introduce to you for years to come. Elite Defense continues to carry Patagonia, Ops-Core, Gentex, ITW, Tango Down, Diamondhead, Gemtech, Phokus, Wilcox, Drift Innovation, Bravo Company, PrincetonTec, and many more. Be sure to come visit us at Shot Show 2016, booth# 32411. We look forward to seeing you.
Sincerely,
Dennis Finnegan
President
ELITE DEFENSE
Makes no difference to a civilian shooter. When would anyone sight in at -40c then their next shot is at +40 and the person has someone shooting back at them?
3-4moa shift? At the distances most people use a dot sight you're probably still on target if you're shooting at the enemy, the only people who will notice are civilians shooting at paper.
Soldiers and LE should be practicing regularly enough to avoid critical shots being made when the temp was 60-80c different from the last shot made.
Even if the next time someone shoots their rifle the temp is 80c different so they experience the full 4moa shift from the last shot if you're shooting at 50 yards you're only out a couple inches. Even at 100 yards a 4 inch shift is hardly noticeable if you're standing shooting offhand.
I do agree that it would be better if there was no shift in POI and that there seems to be better options out there now but this really isn't a big deal for civilians and there is no need to go sell all your EOTech sights.
So what if you need to make a one or two click adjustment when you go to the range. It's not like we buy a dot sight for precision shooting.
I like my EOTech and my Aimpoint PRO. Both are good sights and both have functioned perfectly when I've gone to the range wih them. I would buy either one again if I needed another short range sight and the price was in my budget.
3-4moa shift? At the distances most people use a dot sight you're probably still on target if you're shooting at the enemy, the only people who will notice are civilians shooting at paper.
Soldiers and LE should be practicing regularly enough to avoid critical shots being made when the temp was 60-80c different from the last shot made.
Even if the next time someone shoots their rifle the temp is 80c different so they experience the full 4moa shift from the last shot if you're shooting at 50 yards you're only out a couple inches. Even at 100 yards a 4 inch shift is hardly noticeable if you're standing shooting offhand.
I do agree that it would be better if there was no shift in POI and that there seems to be better options out there now but this really isn't a big deal for civilians and there is no need to go sell all your EOTech sights.
So what if you need to make a one or two click adjustment when you go to the range. It's not like we buy a dot sight for precision shooting.
I like my EOTech and my Aimpoint PRO. Both are good sights and both have functioned perfectly when I've gone to the range wih them. I would buy either one again if I needed another short range sight and the price was in my budget.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
....guess its a good thing I regretfully dumped all my eotechs this summer to fund another buy. Thing is I planned to repurchase them at a later date. Now I have to rethink my optics set ups. 
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
This is the part Im having trouble with. I don't know if I want to take on another optic that I could have trouble moving or I end up losing my ass on at a later date. For these reasons, unless its a smokin' deal in terms of what the market used to bare, I doubt I will be jumping to the pump to buy it.
Eotechs are still my favorite reticle and field of view.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
Meh
I'm not getting rid of my EOTechs. I suspect the expansion/contraction of the aluminum upper would also change POI at those extreme temp ranges.
Regardless, a 4MOA at the distances red dots are used at isn't a big deal - especially since we'll use them offhand most if not all of the time.
I used mine yesterday and was hitting clays at 150 yrds (with the 3x magnifier). Plenty accurate for me plinking, hog hunting, and any 3gun match I'll be in
I'm not getting rid of my EOTechs. I suspect the expansion/contraction of the aluminum upper would also change POI at those extreme temp ranges.
Regardless, a 4MOA at the distances red dots are used at isn't a big deal - especially since we'll use them offhand most if not all of the time.
I used mine yesterday and was hitting clays at 150 yrds (with the 3x magnifier). Plenty accurate for me plinking, hog hunting, and any 3gun match I'll be in
You might want to consider your source...
Categorized under General Shooting Equipment and Supplies. Our records show it was established in 2007 and incorporated in Michigan. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of less than $500,000 and employs a staff of approximately 5 to 9.
Because they sound like they are a big player...
Plus there is two sides to every story. They could have been dumped by Eotech, you don't know the whole story. Remember kids not everything on the internet is true.
Anyone who thinks this involves zeroing the sight at -40C, and then experiencing a zero shift of 4 MOA at +40C, either has not read the document, or read it, but not understood it.
It states:
Thermal Drift - After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Impact to the operators is the sight zero will be affected at varying operating temperatures...Example: If you have a 4 MOA shift (2nd row 4 MOA), you will have a 4.6” shift if target is at a range of 100 meters (1st column 100 m).
The above is in addition to two other earlier problems which when added to the above, may result in a cumulative effect:
Fading Reticle - The complete 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle may not be visible to the operator throughout the entire viewing window of the ECOS-Q optic. The ECOS-Q system’s age and environmental exposure are factors which accelerate reticle dimming. Impact to operators is the holographic reticle may not be visible in all firing positions.
Parallax Error – Parallax is an apparent change in the position of an object resulting from a change in position of the observer. The 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle point of aim will appear to move in relation to your target during off-axis firing positions where maintaining cheek-weld and sight picture is not feasible. The ECOS-Q system has the potential of approximately 4 Minute of Angle (MOA) parallax error at 70°F and approximately 6 MOA parallax error at 5°F. Impact to the operators is the point of aim / point of impact will be affected by a MOA parallax error, in off-axis firing positions at all temperatures.
Additionally, L3/Eotech has changed their manuals to note that all zeroing adjustments are approximately 0.5 MOA.
The thing to note from the above, is that the shifts are all approximate and/or potential, so where the zero actually ends up is pure guesswork until the first rounds go downrange. Also, anyone who thinks that the sight won't experience extremes of temperature when transported in the trunk of a vehicle, needs to try it for themselves. LE Departments in the US have been routinely experiencing this with their patrol carbines. The FBI HRT have now replaced their Eotechs with Aimpoint H2s.
Is any of this an issue for civilian shooters on a one way range? It's your money, so you decide.
Regards.
Mark
It states:
Thermal Drift - After zeroing the ECOS systems at or near ambient temperature (73°F), the zero position will shift during operating temperature changes. The ECOS systems have the potential to shift approximately +/- 4 Minutes of Angle (MOA) at -40°F and 122°F. Due to thermal drift, the sight may not return to zero. The systems have the potential of approximately a +/- 2 MOA zero shift upon return to ambient (73°F) after being exposed to any temperature between -40°F and 122°F temperatures. Impact to the operators is the sight zero will be affected at varying operating temperatures...Example: If you have a 4 MOA shift (2nd row 4 MOA), you will have a 4.6” shift if target is at a range of 100 meters (1st column 100 m).
The above is in addition to two other earlier problems which when added to the above, may result in a cumulative effect:
Fading Reticle - The complete 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle may not be visible to the operator throughout the entire viewing window of the ECOS-Q optic. The ECOS-Q system’s age and environmental exposure are factors which accelerate reticle dimming. Impact to operators is the holographic reticle may not be visible in all firing positions.
Parallax Error – Parallax is an apparent change in the position of an object resulting from a change in position of the observer. The 65 MOA ring with 1 MOA dot reticle point of aim will appear to move in relation to your target during off-axis firing positions where maintaining cheek-weld and sight picture is not feasible. The ECOS-Q system has the potential of approximately 4 Minute of Angle (MOA) parallax error at 70°F and approximately 6 MOA parallax error at 5°F. Impact to the operators is the point of aim / point of impact will be affected by a MOA parallax error, in off-axis firing positions at all temperatures.
Additionally, L3/Eotech has changed their manuals to note that all zeroing adjustments are approximately 0.5 MOA.
The thing to note from the above, is that the shifts are all approximate and/or potential, so where the zero actually ends up is pure guesswork until the first rounds go downrange. Also, anyone who thinks that the sight won't experience extremes of temperature when transported in the trunk of a vehicle, needs to try it for themselves. LE Departments in the US have been routinely experiencing this with their patrol carbines. The FBI HRT have now replaced their Eotechs with Aimpoint H2s.
Is any of this an issue for civilian shooters on a one way range? It's your money, so you decide.
Regards.
Mark
Never heard someone downplay something so blindly. The sight can experience huge temperature swings in all weather conditions. Pulling the gun out of a warm car into -30 temperatures?? Then squeezing off a few mags and warming the receiver up by 100 degrees? Or perhaps pulling the gun out of a boiling hot car trunk on a hot humid summer day??
Sorry but your downplay is bogus. A 4" shift at 100 is hardly noticeable??? Jeez.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
I've done both and never experienced anything out of the ordinary. I've shot mine in the desert of the south west in the summer and in the middle of February in Vermont. I'm not dismissing what they're saying, only that I never noticed a difference.
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