All is Not Right in Eotech Land... *UPDATE Getting Worse*

[0.5moa]

CANSOF definitely does not run glock lol. Sig p226 which is an entirely separate discussion.

As far as being hard on kit goes this may be true but your not factoring in how that SF is used. It's not like conventional infantry is going order patrols to test atmospherics, do village assements, Adance to contact etc. Sf is a very deliberate direct specific group. If everything doesn't line up they don't go. If one little thing is off...they get her on the next one. The info needs to be good, aircraft visibility needs to be good, sig int lining up? , humint conflicting?, % of moon light, unaccounted for variable, etc etc etc. So a 3 gunner who's out there shooting daily would probably be a little harder on kit than a operator. But it's 2 very very different things entirely. As for the eotech again it's all very deliberate and planned if they are going cqb then thats all they are going to do, chopper drops u off on the roof top go in do you job picked up out back. In that case you would bring a dedicated cqb upper in our case is currently an eotech.

The other sight issued is a elcan specter DR 1-4 which I'm sure sucks as well if you look on line at the "research".

I'm not sure why I keep purchasing these terrible optics.

please not: This is CANADIAN GUN NUTS NOT US GUN NUTS so I could care less what they do. I personally only know 2 guys in the us sf community, in canada lots and again I have asked a few guy who I talking to regularly about this issue and they are aware that it does exist however everything is deliberate so you go to the artic you zero. Next week your In south America zero again. Different elevation, barometric pressure, etc etc etc.

So i could see if you were flying around from environment to environment all willy nilly how that would create a problem but professionals are professional for a resonance so the notion that your going to experience a major shift in the optic with out doing your proper SOPS is all verbal diarrhea to me

Out to you

i not comparing a 3 gunner and a spec ops guy in terms of whom is better at what, but that of who can have a better say on the reliability of an eotech. I can send my trijicons out to afghanistan and they will come back scratched, dirty but will still hold zero and you dont need a battery. You give me an eotech for the same time in 3 gun season and it will be completely thrashed and not working properly. 3 gun was created by the guys in soldier of fortune for military training and the miller brothers in the 90s. 3 gunners will definately be harder on their gear , and a sig mk 25 is nothing to take home to mom to brag about, seen many of them go down for the count and has an aweful grip angle for fast double taps. Id like to see any cansof guys do an el presidente in 3 seconds like alot of 3 gunners can do, or shoot 400 meter targets standing after a good run and hit all of them. I can afford a sig 226 but i run an agency arms glock build which is 3 times the money of a sig, why you may ask, because its much better. Give any gun to a 3 gunner and he will break it eventually.

 

[Maple Leaf Pilgrim]

I have only used Eotechs in weapons fam. For the most part, when I deployed it was with SUSATs, then Trijicon and Aimpoint.

Of course, if I ever noticed the glass on the X-ray's bang sticks, I never thought I was any safer if they had X, Y or Z optics on their rifles.

So yeah, I'm not going to dismiss kit just 'cause USSOCOM had to jam out an OpSABUL.

-S.

 

[0.5moa]

To a good 3 gunner these guys dont look very good. Just check out the muzzle flip on the sig and they miss at 7 yards. 3 gunners can hit those targets from 50 yards away and the rifle from 500 yards , i mean come on,at least 1 guy had an aimpoint.

 

[dfritter1]

To a good 3 gunner these guys dont look very good. Just check out the muzzle flip on the sig and they miss at 7 yards. 3 gunners can hit those targets from 50 yards away and the rifle from 500 yards , i mean come on,at least 1 guy had an aimpoint.

3 gunners can hit static targets made of paper that (and this is sort of crucial) don't shoot back.

Have a little respect. I'm sure a CANSOF guy could watch video of a bunch of 3 Gun champs dropped into a combat situation and say "these guys don't look very good." Its apples and oranges.

 

[0.5moa]

3 gunners can hit static targets made of paper that (and this is sort of crucial) don't shoot back.

Have a little respect. I'm sure a CANSOF guy could watch video of a bunch of 3 Gun champs dropped into a combat situation and say "these guys don't look very good." Its apples and oranges.

Alot of the good 3 gunners are leo and ex military btw, and we have many , many targets that move. You saying that they are all static makes you look ignorant. There is a reason why the US military realized that many civilians in the US where better marksmen then their best guys. This lead to the begining of 3 gun training for the US military. Its not apples to oranges when you compare marksmanship skills.

this is what happens when military personel meet 3 gun.

 

[dfritter1]

Alot of the good 3 gunners are leo and ex military btw, and we have many , many targets that move. You saying that they are all static makes you look ignorant. There is a reason why the US military realized that many civilians in the US where better marksmen then their best guys. This lead to the begining of 3 gun training for the US military. Its not apples to oranges when you compare marksmanship skills.

this is what happens when military personel meet 3 gun.

I think you entirely missed my point.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

i not comparing a 3 gunner and a spec ops guy in terms of whom is better at what, but that of who can have a better say on the reliability of an eotech. I can send my trijicons out to afghanistan and they will come back scratched, dirty but will still hold zero and you dont need a battery. You give me an eotech for the same time in 3 gun season and it will be completely thrashed and not working properly. 3 gun was created by the guys in soldier of fortune for military training and the miller brothers in the 90s. 3 gunners will definately be harder on their gear , and a sig mk 25 is nothing to take home to mom to brag about, seen many of them go down for the count and has an aweful grip angle for fast double taps. Id like to see any cansof guys do an el presidente in 3 seconds like alot of 3 gunners can do, or shoot 400 meter targets standing after a good run and hit all of them. I can afford a sig 226 but i run an agency arms glock build which is 3 times the money of a sig, why you may ask, because its much better. Give any gun to a 3 gunner and he will break it eventually.

Sounds like you should join cansof and become the small arms subject matter expert since you seem to know better than any other person alive. They dont choose what they running that's why it's called ISSUED KIT.

I'm sitting with a few guys now and they just lol at your arrogance but are constant professionals and have issued you a shooting challenge. As many courses of fire as you'd like, scored and recorded at any range in Ontario,Manitoba,Quebec or Saskatchewan with in the next 12 days can only get so much leave. They will run the exact same rig as issued and you run your gucci multi million glock.

Well understand if your "busy"

The mk25 is not the issued 226 but good guess.

If you don't believe a guy who shoots for a living can hit a target at 400my standing then you have sever issues ( which I sort of allready picked up on)

A little weapons maintenance and proper hard wear and a firearm will last alot longer that 100000 rounds. Ever consider you multi million $$$$$ glock a combat weapon? Didn't think so big difference between a firearm that needs to be reliable to save a life vs reliable to punch paper of shoot a gong when the trigger pull is 1lb.

You clearly haven't the slightest idea of the real world tactical applications and demands required of a combat firearm in the harshest environments on the planet. 3 gun may be everything in your world but the real world the targets shoot back.

I'm not referring to guys in csor by the way. As I said b4 real professional soldiers. Who are never in the news or on youtube...ever lol

PM if you wanna accept the challenge if not it's understandable.

 

[bcsteve]

I want to be a 3 gunner when I grow up.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

I want to be a 3 gunner when I grow up.

Me 2 but I didn't make it lol....

 

[0.5moa]

Sounds like you should join cansof and become the small arms subject matter expert since you seem to know better than any other person alive. They dont choose what they running that's why it's called ISSUED KIT.

I'm sitting with a few guys now and they just lol at your arrogance but are constant professionals and have issued you a shooting challenge. As many courses of fire as you'd like, scored and recorded at any range in Ontario,Manitoba,Quebec or Saskatchewan with in the next 12 days can only get so much leave. They will run the exact same rig as issued and you run your gucci multi million glock.

Well understand if your "busy"

The mk25 is not the issued 226 but good guess.

If you don't believe a guy who shoots for a living can hit a target at 400my standing then you have sever issues ( which I sort of allready picked up on)

A little weapons maintenance and proper hard wear and a firearm will last alot longer that 100000 rounds. Ever consider you multi million $$$$$ glock a combat weapon? Didn't think so big difference between a firearm that needs to be reliable to save a life vs reliable to punch paper of shoot a gong when the trigger pull is 1lb.

You clearly haven't the slightest idea of the real world tactical applications and demands required of a combat firearm in the harshest environments on the planet. 3 gun may be everything in your world but the real world the targets shoot back.

I'm not referring to guys in csor by the way. As I said b4 real professional soldiers. Who are never in the news or on youtube...ever lol

PM if you wanna accept the challenge if not it's understandable.

they can chose from elcan, aimpoint and eotech as well as different length ar 15s.

 

[skypilot]

Hey half minute,.......... tantum numerat ### numerat(it only counts when it counts), you know, like when sugar turns to #### and it really, really counts.....for keeps

 

[Jerry Champagne]

they can chose from elcan, aimpoint and eotech as well as different length ar 15s.

Yes and would you bring a magnified 4x optic with a 16" barrel into a cqb event???? The options are eotech and elcan, aimpoint are not issued if used are personally al purchase .

If you read my previous posts I did mention the different set ups they have most guys have 3 uppers. But I'm done debating what I know to be true at the highest level of COMBAT shooting with for all I know is a key board warrior.

Enjoy your 3 gum

Standing bye for your preferred range to run the shoot but not holding my breath .

From alcatraz...OuT

 

[Melnibonean]

Like many here, I compete in 3 gun matches in the US, and my .02 is that, while it's a fun game, it's still just that...........a game. It's no more "realistic" than IDPA or IPSC is. That's not the point of it.

And as Jerry Champagne has repeatedly said, playing a game with equipment designed for those parameters is not the same as combat.

I, for one, never stood square to the target when firing my rifle, upright and static, for example, when I was overseas. Neither did any of the men I was with.

 

[0.5moa]

awe come out to a 3 gun and run your eotech, 1-4 16 inch barrel is so 2012 yo.

 

[0.5moa]

Like many here, I compete in 3 gun matches in the US, and my .02 is that, while it's a fun game, it's still just that...........a game. It's no more "realistic" than IDPA or IPSC is. That's not the point of it.

And as Jerry Champagne has repeatedly said, playing a game with equipment designed for those parameters is not the same as combat.

I, for one, never stood square to the target when firing my rifle, upright and static, for example, when I was overseas. Neither did any of the men I was with.

Being shot at is not that big of a deal, its happened to me on more then 1 occasion, training and skills are still there. 3 gun is not just a fun sport, it is based on a military cqb and long distance scenerios as per the miller brothers intended it to be. Some guys down here take 3 gun very seriously, its good training that makes for good skills out on the field. Leos often get stuck in a handgun fight out in the open, speed and accuracy wins a gun fight, DVC.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

Being shot at is not that big of a deal, its happened to me on more then 1 occasion, training and skills are still there. 3 gun is not just a fun sport, it is based on a military cqb and long distance scenerios as per the miller brothers intended it to be. Some guys down here take 3 gun very seriously, its good training that makes for good skills out on the field.

3 gun is a very very very small small part of the cqb picture. I agree some of the skills are transferable wrt the shooting but thats about it and most of ita not applicable because you dont do cqb bye your dam self YO! at most it's 15% the movement of a section control of a platoon, casualties,case evac, ieds,comms, ccps, marking system, POWs, intel extracting, IA, etc etc etc.again 2 complete different worlds the o KY thing in comments is the discharging of a firearm.

We're still waiting to hear which range you want to use

 

[Jerry Champagne]

awe come out to a 3 gun and run your eotech, 1-4 16 inch barrel is so 2012 yo.

The only 16" I have is a KAC E3 sr15 yo! and it's not my 3 gun rig. But you probably allready knew that2

 

[0.5moa]

i give up, go buy an eotech, cansof are the best marksmen in the world and 3 gun is just a game like crib, it certainly will not improve your shooting skills under pressure, have a good night. ps being a 3 gunners is being in the 3 gun nation league, with a required minimum match attendance and classifiers, not someone who shoots at 3 gun events sometimes, theres a big difference.

 

[skypilot]

Now would be a good time to pop smoke.

 

[Jerry Champagne]

i give up, go buy an eotech, cansof are the best marksmen in the world and 3 gun is just a game like crib, it certainly will not improve your shooting skills under pressure, have a good night.

Longest kill belonged to a CANSOF pers for over 18 months. I'm sure 3 gun would be assets to any one who ran it. I did but then I when back to shooting living targets (more fun)

Always do. And you as well stay classy lol

PM for match plz plz plz