Southern Alberta 3Gun League

[1948]

How did the match go? Number of shooters? Results?

I heard that the match went very well. I was unable to attend because of short notice - it was put together quickly so as to have a official 3 Gun Nation match in 2015.
Plans are to have lots of matches in 2016.
Results are available at the 3 Gun Nation website. Not all shooters joined 3 Gun Nation to shoot so their results are not listed.
And it has already been answered but this is the Lethbridge, Alberta Fish & Game range.

 

[armycat]

http://chinookcountryshooters.ca/index.php/three-gun/

Three Gun Nation Club

Read through the 3 Gun Nation rules and have a few questions;

Rule 1.4.1 as I read safety chamber flags must be used. Is your club using them?

Rule 1.5.1.2 Safety Condition Two "Completely Empty" there is a set of Series and Regional completely empty conditions. Which do you use or is it dependant on the match?

Rules 8.1 to 8.5 for targets, paper targets must be 3 Gun Nation targets and rules 8.1, 8.3, 8.4, and 8.5 do not permit clay pigeons or bowling pins to be used as pistol, shotgun buckshot or slug, or rifle targets. is this correct?

I think using 3 Gun Nation rules might be a hard sell in Medicine Hat is 3 Gun Nation targets have to be used and also due to the number of variations in penalties used. 3 Gun Nation rules allow 2.5 sec, 5 sec, 7.5 sec, 10 sec, 12.5 sec and 20 sec penalties as well as match DQ.

 

[Garand]

In recent discussions in Medicine Hat, it is felt that not enough people we currently have shooting 3 gun here are dedicated enough to competition shooting to form any sort of league in Southern Alberta or affiliate with 3 Gun nation. As well we do not have the funds currently available to standardize targetry.

 

[1948]

Read through the 3 Gun Nation rules and have a few questions;

Rule 1.4.1 as I read safety chamber flags must be used. Is your club using them?

Rule 1.5.1.2 Safety Condition Two "Completely Empty" there is a set of Series and Regional completely empty conditions. Which do you use or is it dependant on the match?

Rules 8.1 to 8.5 for targets, paper targets must be 3 Gun Nation targets and rules 8.1, 8.3, 8.4, and 8.5 do not permit clay pigeons or bowling pins to be used as pistol, shotgun buckshot or slug, or rifle targets. is this correct?

I think using 3 Gun Nation rules might be a hard sell in Medicine Hat is 3 Gun Nation targets have to be used and also due to the number of variations in penalties used. 3 Gun Nation rules allow 2.5 sec, 5 sec, 7.5 sec, 10 sec, 12.5 sec and 20 sec penalties as well as match DQ.

Above my pay grade.
Hopefully someone will jump in that has the answers.
Nick, are you out there?

 

[armycat]

http://chinookcountryshooters.ca/index.php/upcoming-events-matches/

We ran our first match Oct. 31.

Do you know if all matches held in Lethbridge in 2016 will use 3 Gun Nation rules? I looked at the web site for the Oct 31 match. It was limited to 24 shooters, will those matches be expanding.

I like the idea of a southern Alberta league but I can see some conflict trying to sort out common rules. Looking at the CDTSA rules there are significant differences for divisions, magazine capacity and penalties from what Medicine Hat. I have never shot at CDTSA, as a non-reloader the lead or plated bullet only rule is a problem for me.

 

[1948]

The plan is that all matches will use 3 Gun Nation rules.
Matches next year will be expanded, by the end of Oct. we run short on daylight hours.

 

[TinkerBell]

The plan is that all matches will use 3 Gun Nation rules.
Matches next year will be expanded, by the end of Oct. we run short on daylight hours.

why would you handicap yourselves so much..... it would be different if its the USA and you travel state to state, but frankly if its only you and 3-4 other clubs doing it why not sit down and make your own rules/divisions that suit your area shooters.... get the other club organizers involved and do it right.

 

[1948]

In my eyes the biggest benefit is that we don't have to sit down and make our own rules/divisions or try to deal with other club organizers. Anyone who wants to shoot a match can visit the 3 Gun Nation website and read the rules and divisions.

 

[Shibby!]

I have never shot at CDTSA, as a non-reloader the lead or plated bullet only rule is a problem for me.

There is quite a selection of (re)loaded ammo to purchase that's plated. Wolf, BDX, etc. I'm sure there are lots of others, I'm just less familiar because I reload. I can find out if needed.

 

[TinkerBell]

In my eyes the biggest benefit is that we don't have to sit down and make our own rules/divisions or try to deal with other club organizers. Anyone who wants to shoot a match can visit the 3 Gun Nation website and read the rules and divisions.

the 3gn rules book is 22 pages long in the most current edition..... frankly if your holding club matches and the rules are more then a page long your doing it wrong.

frankly the 3gn rules read more like ipsc then anything as far as dq's, calibrating poppers, legal and illegal targets.... etc etc.... your going to have fun with classifying shooters... and there are what 8 divisions, so at the end of your match with say 40 shooters your going to have to sort them into classifications from amatuer to pro (6 catagories) and then seperate that into 7 equipment divisions..... see where i am coming from here.

you dont have to reinvent the wheel...... just pick and chose what you want, make it your own and as long as it is circular, it will roll.

here is what we use for divisions, and a sample score sheet..... 8 matches this year and they all worked out well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm0ibl5cxw0sa2h/3gun divisions.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/278cdkf0hamsnmd/3 GUN SCORE SHEET.pdf?dl=0

 

[OldWays]

Lots of great discussion on here regarding 3 Gun, 3 Gun Nation and the Chinook Country Shooters official 3 Gun Nation event on Oct. 31. I represent the shooting sports management company that brought 3GN to Western Canada, Chinnok Country Shooters and produced the Western Canadian Opener on the 31. Our company can run official 3 Gun Nation matches, clinics, etc., at almost any approved range. We have all the official targets, props and equipment and can travel it to host clubs anywhere. We can run full 'turn key' events where the host club has us do everything or we can include local club members in running the event (although most would rather let us handle all the work and just come and shoot and relax and enjoy the event.). We are in the process of inviting all ranges in the region to participate in a traveling season of 3 Gun Nation fun and competition in 2016. The Lethbridge Fish and Game Association Shooting Sports Facility is Chinook Country Shooters Club (CCSC) primary 3GN range but we, as I said will be taking it on the road in 2016. I am limited on what I can say here as we are not an official CGN business and I do not want to hijack this thread or break the rules of the forum. I have answers to all the questions here and would be very happy to answer them in regard to the CCSC 2016 season which will be a blast and include a full schedule of events. If you would like to know more about that, the opportunity to bring official 3GN events to your local facility, or 3GN in general please PM me or contact me 'Panda' through the email link on the Chinook Country Shooters Facebook page or website.

 

[Stevo]

"Shooting sports management company"?

So you're running for-profit 3GN events?

 

[OldWays]

Actually Stevo we are shooting sport enthusiasts that are also management consultants that use our experience and skills to assist clubs and organization's to run successful, enjoyable, safe events. As I said however I do not want to cross the line regarding promoting a company on CGN without being official business members, I'm only answering questions that I was asked to answer and suggest that anyone who has detailed questions PM me.

Thank you

Scott

 

[Stevo]

Actually Stevo we are shooting sport enthusiasts that are also management consultants that use our experience and skills to assist clubs and organization's to run successful, enjoyable, safe events.

I'll take that as a fancy way of saying "yes".

 

[OldWays]

Yes but the distinction is important, we work for clubs and organizations and do not directly hold 3 Gun Events ourselves. Support and promotion of firearm related service organizations and clubs is key to winning the battle to being recognized as legitimate sportsmen and women engaged in safe and responsible community sports.

 

[Stevo]

Yes but the distinction is important, we work for clubs and organizations and do not directly hold 3 Gun Events ourselves. Support and promotion of firearm related service organizations and clubs is key to winning the battle to being recognized as legitimate sportsmen and women engaged in safe and responsible community sports.

If it gets more folks shooting 3 gun, it's a good thing. If the business model works out, that's good too. I can see it being handy for clubs that currently lack the infrastructure to run a 3 gun event.

I do disagree on the point that paying dues to a foreign sanctioning body makes shooting 3 gun more "legitimate" than if it's local clubs or groups like WRAS or MP3G.

 

[OldWays]

I completely see your perspective Stevo and respect it, but as with IPSC many people want that international connection and enjoy comparing their scores if not actually competing with people from all around the world. (3GN is GREAT for this as the Qualifiers are exactly the same courses shot under the same rules where ever they are held) A number of people from the Oct. 31 match plan to try their hand across the line and at least one shooter is planning on going farther afield (3GN has matches in their home country.) On the other side our matches also allow for non members to shoot the same courses of fire but their scores are not recorded internationally as part of the 3GN match, as non-members they are not part of the official 3GN shoot, so their times and scores are retained locally. Chinook Country Shooters awarded their own awards to winners in every stage, division and category and will continue to do so. They will also be holding overall yearly statistics and league awards. - Panda

 

[TinkerBell]

but as with IPSC many people want that international connection and enjoy comparing their scores if not actually competing with people from all around the world. (3GN is GREAT for this as the Qualifiers are exactly the same courses shot under the same rules where ever they are held)

can you post link to classifier stages, all i could find where these (http://www.orsa3gun.com/3_gun_nation.htm), with 10 round mags or beo mags it looks do able as far as even playing field to compare scores. some good courses of fire there as well, and pistol mags are becoming more common for different platforms.....

and i do like the "pistol carbine" division as it may add a new venue for some shooters (tnw aero rifle, beretta carbines, m1 carbines.... etc etc etc), my only concern would be the distance shots.... but that could be overcome by eliminating anything past 150yds for the PC division and call anything past 150 a "no shoot" since they only compete against shooters in the same division.

sorry for rambling.... thought process and all and a bit of "chemo" brain.

 

[Garand]

the 3gn rules book is 22 pages long in the most current edition..... frankly if your holding club matches and the rules are more then a page long your doing it wrong.

frankly the 3gn rules read more like ipsc then anything as far as dq's, calibrating poppers, legal and illegal targets.... etc etc.... your going to have fun with classifying shooters... and there are what 8 divisions, so at the end of your match with say 40 shooters your going to have to sort them into classifications from amatuer to pro (6 catagories) and then seperate that into 7 equipment divisions..... see where i am coming from here.

you dont have to reinvent the wheel...... just pick and chose what you want, make it your own and as long as it is circular, it will roll.

here is what we use for divisions, and a sample score sheet..... 8 matches this year and they all worked out well.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm0ibl5cxw0sa2h/3gun divisions.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/278cdkf0hamsnmd/3 GUN SCORE SHEET.pdf?dl=0

Just printed off the rules from the web site, 38 pages is the number of current pages of rules.

 

[OldWays]

can you post link to classifier stages, all i could find where these (http://www.orsa3gun.com/3_gun_nation.htm), with 10 round mags or beo mags it looks do able as far as even playing field to compare scores. some good courses of fire there as well, and pistol mags are becoming more common for different platforms.....

and i do like the "pistol carbine" division as it may add a new venue for some shooters (tnw aero rifle, beretta carbines, m1 carbines.... etc etc etc), my only concern would be the distance shots.... but that could be overcome by eliminating anything past 150yds for the PC division and call anything past 150 a "no shoot" since they only compete against shooters in the same division.

sorry for rambling.... thought process and all and a bit of "chemo" brain.

Yes TinkerBell you are right, the mag capacities are not as bad as they could be as there are limits to starting capacity and during stage reloads set by Division or written stage procedures for the Qualifiers themselves. Some of this depends on the choice of Qualifiers, we can choose ones that don't require long strings of rifle or pistol fire and have mandatory reloads so that even if you could use a 17 round pistol mag or 30 round rifle mag you would be forced to change mags before you got much advantage from it (unless you miss a lot and need to unload a lot of lead at the same target.) During the Oct. 31 match people with LAR and Beowulf mags had no real disadvantages (compared to parts of the US for example where 30 round mags would be allowed) on the qualifiers we shot and on some, even 5 rounders were on par with 30s due to mandatory changes and smaller target array groups. Re Shotguns, except for unlimited shotgun Division we can almost be on par for most Divisions too because of the stated maximum load outs (this depends hugely on your requirement however and ability to ghost load etc.) but with some imagination and the right gear & division we can basically compete head to head. Not all but some is a start.

The PCR Divisions are really exciting to us as is the .22 cal Divisions. There are areas that could bring a whole new dimension of fun to 3 Gun. -- < EXCITING

Unfortunately as far as I can tell you need to be logged in to have full access to the stages on the 3GN website There is a public link but it seems to have been disabled.