Rook-Type Rifle Wanted - Who Can Make one and what is the best action
- Thread starter SmallBoreBuyer
- Start date
Chris Weber and IMHO the small Martini action with heavy sidewalls would be ideal. 38spcl would likely be the best cartridge of the two you describe simply because ammo is readily available and easily reloaded to whichever velocity you prefer. Also they make plastic inserts to be used in plastic cartridge cases with a magnum or shotgun primer for indoor/basement shooting.
- Location
- Steel Town
I acquired a lovely 1912 BSA Martini 310 Australian Cadet. It chambers and fires 32-20 and my handloads meant for my Swiss model 1882 revolver.
I highly recommend these small BSA actions... very strong and very classy. Put a WTB ad in EE and eventually one will show up.
If I ever rebarrel it (and I doubt that will happen in my lifetime), I would go 357 mag/38 Sp... for a little extra oomphhh off the shelf.
If you reload, 32-20 can be turned into a real screamer, equalling and even surpassing 30 M1 Carbine.
Good luck
I highly recommend these small BSA actions... very strong and very classy. Put a WTB ad in EE and eventually one will show up.
If I ever rebarrel it (and I doubt that will happen in my lifetime), I would go 357 mag/38 Sp... for a little extra oomphhh off the shelf.
If you reload, 32-20 can be turned into a real screamer, equalling and even surpassing 30 M1 Carbine.
Good luck
- Location
- Steel Town
This is a "before and after" of my "rook".
A contender break action converted to a rifle would be a nice option as well. Or something along that line.
No one makes the mid size rolling blocks any more but those would be another nice option. As would a Browning/Winchester low wall.
There's also the Stevens 44 1/2 action which is more than able to contain the sort of rounds you're considering. In fact it's so good a rifle that someone is still making them a few a year at a custom rifle price. But if you could get one of these into your hands through someone like I Run Guns I suspect you would be one very happy camper. And while the price is up there I suspect that if you're looking at a custom build of some unique action that you'll be up to this price level darn fast anyway.
http://singleshotrifles.com/
Or dare I suggest the unobtainable? A small scale trapdoor action suitable for something like .357Mag which can then shoot .38Spl? Or even the mild to hot .32 calibers? No one makes any such thing...... But they darn well SHOULD.
FWIW Pedersoli makes the baby rolling block carbine model in .357Mag. They aren't cheap for an off the shelf option but it will still be a lot cheaper than a custom build or a CPA Stevens. The barrels are rather short but that could be fixed for a price.
The smaller Martini sure is a nice action though. But they are getting to be rather collectable and the actions by themselves do not show up often. But if you're patient enough I'm sure something will come along.
No one makes the mid size rolling blocks any more but those would be another nice option. As would a Browning/Winchester low wall.
There's also the Stevens 44 1/2 action which is more than able to contain the sort of rounds you're considering. In fact it's so good a rifle that someone is still making them a few a year at a custom rifle price. But if you could get one of these into your hands through someone like I Run Guns I suspect you would be one very happy camper. And while the price is up there I suspect that if you're looking at a custom build of some unique action that you'll be up to this price level darn fast anyway.
http://singleshotrifles.com/
Or dare I suggest the unobtainable? A small scale trapdoor action suitable for something like .357Mag which can then shoot .38Spl? Or even the mild to hot .32 calibers? No one makes any such thing...... But they darn well SHOULD.
FWIW Pedersoli makes the baby rolling block carbine model in .357Mag. They aren't cheap for an off the shelf option but it will still be a lot cheaper than a custom build or a CPA Stevens. The barrels are rather short but that could be fixed for a price.
The smaller Martini sure is a nice action though. But they are getting to be rather collectable and the actions by themselves do not show up often. But if you're patient enough I'm sure something will come along.
Ahh yes.. I have one of those as well. Original (Metford-rifled) barrel was useless so had Epps put a Mk III SMLE barrel on it years ago. "I've been meaning to get around to" sorting out the trigger pull ever since. It's so stiff it would make the sternest litigation lawyer leap for joy.
There was a 357mag martini cadet on the EE a couple years ago. I so want one of those. I have a couple .22lr in martini cadet various conditions. I have a cadet in .256wm, which is a .357mag necked down. A full frame martini in .218bee and .577snider. The .218bee is the best and nicest to shoot. They are out there and the actions can take a decent amount of pressure. There are some hand made small batch martini actions and falling blocks being made but they are very pricy. Break action is likely the most common today and with a good barrel would be very accurate.
Martini would be your most available option.
Best? It depends on what you are looking for in it, and what you wish to do with it. Cheap? A break action like an H&R or Rossi, and some fancy woodwork. More money? An antique center fire action. Grab a copy of Single Shot Rifles and Actions by DeHaas for ideas as to which may be a suitable donor and hunt around.
More money still? I think Hagn is still making his rifle action in a couple different sizes. Sorta a cross between a Farquarson (spelling?) and a old school German falling block type of action.
There are a few other makers of custom actions around, but mostly in the US. Hagn is a Canadian rarity.
Holland and Holland made some pretty nice stuff. Probably still will, if you put money on the table. Lots of money!
Rook rifles were pretty much a rich peoples toy when they were current technology, so many are pretty and well made. There are several sellers of antiquarian arms in England that would export. Importing is not onerous, esp. since you are not dealing with having to prove it was not a converted auto or similar. Works out to paying the shipping, GST/PST/HST as applies, and yer pretty much done, since there is no longer a registry.
Getting guns OUT of the US is a PITA, due to their export requirements, which is why the importers have a pretty good business going from there.
A Winchester Low Wall would make a nice start too. Not super cheap, but available off the gun rack, in pretty much any gun shop with a bunch of stock.
It all sorta depends on what you want, what for, and what you are willing to pay. Sky is the limit.
Cheers
Trev
Best? It depends on what you are looking for in it, and what you wish to do with it. Cheap? A break action like an H&R or Rossi, and some fancy woodwork. More money? An antique center fire action. Grab a copy of Single Shot Rifles and Actions by DeHaas for ideas as to which may be a suitable donor and hunt around.
More money still? I think Hagn is still making his rifle action in a couple different sizes. Sorta a cross between a Farquarson (spelling?) and a old school German falling block type of action.
There are a few other makers of custom actions around, but mostly in the US. Hagn is a Canadian rarity.
Holland and Holland made some pretty nice stuff. Probably still will, if you put money on the table. Lots of money!
Rook rifles were pretty much a rich peoples toy when they were current technology, so many are pretty and well made. There are several sellers of antiquarian arms in England that would export. Importing is not onerous, esp. since you are not dealing with having to prove it was not a converted auto or similar. Works out to paying the shipping, GST/PST/HST as applies, and yer pretty much done, since there is no longer a registry.
Getting guns OUT of the US is a PITA, due to their export requirements, which is why the importers have a pretty good business going from there.
A Winchester Low Wall would make a nice start too. Not super cheap, but available off the gun rack, in pretty much any gun shop with a bunch of stock.
It all sorta depends on what you want, what for, and what you are willing to pay. Sky is the limit.
Cheers
Trev
Hmm, mine is a joy to shoot. Just a tad sore on the eye's is all. I can understand why folks want a Rook though, the Martini action is a thing of beauty.
I suspect mine is just out of alignment and no doubt fixable. I just need to set aside a day to reacquaint myself with the action. Not the most convenient to do a trigger job on as it has to be taken out, futzed with, then put back to check in situ. Repeat as necessary...
John Sukey, a fellow in Arizona who oaccas. posts on CGN, made up a nice Martini/SMLE hybrid years ago:
I'd eventually like to do this to mine.
I also have a large-action AG Parker in .22 Hornet which I seem unable to get to shoot properly, despite trying .223 & .224 bullets, neck-turning cases etc.
The trigger on this one is very nice, though. Yet another project for next summer.
It would be wonderful if one of the Italian makers would start making Martini actions.
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
This is a "before and after" of my "rook".
Oskar's handiwork?
I suspect mine is just out of alignment and no doubt fixable. I just need to set aside a day to reacquaint myself with the action. Not the most convenient to do a trigger job on as it has to be taken out, futzed with, then put back to check in situ. Repeat as necessary...
John Sukey, a fellow in Arizona who oaccas. posts on CGN, made up a nice Martini/SMLE hybrid years ago:
I'd eventually like to do this to mine.
I also have a large-action AG Parker in .22 Hornet which I seem unable to get to shoot properly, despite trying .223 & .224 bullets, neck-turning cases etc.
The trigger on this one is very nice, though. Yet another project for next summer.
It would be wonderful if one of the Italian makers would start making Martini actions.
Have you slugged your bore to check diameter???? A lot of those original barrels have .220 bores and are fine with lead bullets but don't shoot jacketed bullets well at all.
Good thought. I hadn't done that. (Yet another project to help me avoid doing other urgent things!) I'm not sure of the provenance of this rifle. It has a genuine Parkerrifled insert and is listed in an early P-H catalogue but as I recall from some discussions I had on one of the other forums (Martini-Henry/Gunboards I think) it may have originally been modified as a .22 LR. Another oddity is that it seems to shoot high with any Hornet load with the original sights. I installed a higher green F.O. on the front which helped.
I whole heartedly agree. But I don't think it'll happen. Or if it does it'll be Pedersoli that makes it happen and the price will be well up there.
The other companies' main market is the cowboy action shooting community. And the SASS cowboy action rules specifically rule against any rifle for the side matches that does not have an external hammer. So that cuts out a major portion of any potential market.
But I have to agree that I think there's enough of a market for a nice rimfire Martini action that is along the lines of the BSA Martini in either the simpler general purpose pre-war style or the post war match accuracy International style that it would be worth making a batch now and then. Just be ready for a price that is up into the 3 figure range.
The big issue is that a Martini action isn't scope friendly. Nice low mount rings are going to seriously block access to the loading port if a regular style scope was to be used. And these days scopes rule with the masses. Even the single shot faithful that hunt with such things as the Ruger #1 and #3. So the old rear block style actions such as the rolling block and falling block 1885 are the "safe" production designs that have the most chance of finding a home with the hunting community while being SASS rules compliant at the same time. So double the potential market size.
Alas, you're right. I just remembered a picture I had in my files of David Kaiser (ex-Brownells) with a beautiful scoped Martini.
I found the article where this came from on the British Militaria Forum, with David's reference to the original image
All this discussion has finally got me off my arse to get my .310 Cadet rebored to .38/357 by Ron Smith. It'll be en route to him next week and maybe ready for next summer. I'll probably upgrade the sights a bit- put a nice brass patridge, white line or F.O. on the front and modify the rear sight for a larger notch. Fortunately I have a spare barrel for it (!) so will still have the original. Only the extractor will need to be permanently modified for .38/357.
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