Rebarrel to 6.5 Creed or 7mm-08, thoughts?

J996

J996

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I will be getting another barrel soon and am looking at either 6.5 Creed or 7mm08. The application is for target shooting and PR comps.

After crunching some numbers both are very close in wind drift with the same BC bullets both running at a conservative 2600 fps (on paper anyways).

7mm08 162 AMAX claimed BC 625 wind drift in 5mph wind 8" @500yds 37"@1000 yds.

6.5 Creed 142 SMK claimed BC 626 wind drift in 5 mph wind 8" @500yds 37" @1000 yds.

I reload and my magazines will hold 3" COAL so I do have some room to work with.


I am actually leaning towards the 7mm at this point since it should work well with 4895 which I have alot of and I can reform .308 brass.

Would I be giving up anything to the 6.5? Are they really that close in ballistics or am I missing something?
 
Depending on the length of your barrel, 2800 fps with the Creed should be very reasonable. A friend and I both rebarrelled recently, he to a 6.5 and myself to 260. Both rifles sport 22" barrels, he is shooting 140 Amax at 2807fps and I am shooting 139 Scenar's at 2824fps. Both using H4350. Speeds are 10 round average over my Chrony

Edit: on a dense air day like today Applied Ballistics puts me at 6" drift @500 and 27.5" @1000 (5mph from 3 o-clock)
 
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dusticles said:
Depending on the length of your barrel, 2800 fps with the Creed should be very reasonable. A friend and I both rebarrelled recently, he to a 6.5 and myself to 260. Both rifles sport 22" barrels, he is shooting 140 Amax at 2807fps and I am shooting 139 Scenar's at 2824fps. Both using H4350. Speeds are 10 round average over my Chrony

Edit: on a dense air day like today Applied Ballistics puts me at 6" drift @500 and 27.5" @1000 (5mph from 3 o-clock)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the data dusticles. I used Hogdons online reloading data and they list their max 6.5 Creed load at 2694 and 2735 for the 260 both with 24" barrel. How many grains is you friend using with H4350?

As long as 2800 fps is not considered a hot load for the creed that should do it as I don't like to run things near max.

I don't think the 7-08 can match 2800 fps with any degree of safety so all else being equal the added velocity puts the 6.5 ahead.
 
J996 said:
Thanks for the data dusticles. I used Hogdons online reloading data and they list their max 6.5 Creed load at 2694 and 2735 for the 260 both with 24" barrel. How many grains is you friend using with H4350?

As long as 2800 fps is not considered a hot load for the creed that should do it as I don't like to run things near max.

I don't think the 7-08 can match 2800 fps with any degree of safety so all else being equal the added velocity puts the 6.5 ahead.
Click to expand...

2800fps was to hot for my 260. Unless you like loose primer pockets. Im about 2750 at 25*C.
 
The 7mm will get better barrel life. If you're just going to be shooting prone, there won't be a noticeable difference in ballistics. However, the 6.5 will have less recoil which is advantageous if you are doing any kind of barricade/positional shooting and need to spot your own shots.
 
kombayotch said:
The 7mm will get better barrel life. If you're just going to be shooting prone, there won't be a noticeable difference in ballistics. However, the 6.5 will have less recoil which is advantageous if you are doing any kind of barricade/positional shooting and need to spot your own shots.
Click to expand...

+1

The extra bullet weight of the 7mm is unnecessary if you're not shooting animals.
 
J996 said:
Thanks for the data dusticles. I used Hogdons online reloading data and they list their max 6.5 Creed load at 2694 and 2735 for the 260 both with 24" barrel. How many grains is you friend using with H4350?

As long as 2800 fps is not considered a hot load for the creed that should do it as I don't like to run things near max.

I don't think the 7-08 can match 2800 fps with any degree of safety so all else being equal the added velocity puts the 6.5 ahead.
Click to expand...

J996,
I think the data for the 6.5 CM is very conservative. I have an AINA 26" Bartlein bbl in 6.5 CM and get 2832 fps using 42.3 gr of H4350 and shooting 139 Scenars. This is a very accurate load in my AI AX and on my 4th firing with the Hornady brass. Primer pockets are still good I haven't annealed any yet.
 
I have been thinkin about the same thing, right now iam leaning heavy towards the 7mm08. Mostly do to the barrel life and bullet selection for hunting. This would be my long term all purpose rifle. Hunting, long range, and maybe a handful of comps rifle.
 
J996 said:
I will be getting another barrel soon and am looking at either 6.5 Creed or 7mm08. The application is for target shooting and PR comps.

After crunching some numbers both are very close in wind drift with the same BC bullets both running at a conservative 2600 fps (on paper anyways).

7mm08 162 AMAX claimed BC 625 wind drift in 5mph wind 8" @500yds 37"@1000 yds.

6.5 Creed 142 SMK claimed BC 626 wind drift in 5 mph wind 8" @500yds 37" @1000 yds.

I reload and my magazines will hold 3" COAL so I do have some room to work with.


I am actually leaning towards the 7mm at this point since it should work well with 4895 which I have alot of and I can reform .308 brass.

Would I be giving up anything to the 6.5? Are they really that close in ballistics or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

The further you want to shoot, the better a heavier bullet will work. Ballistically, they are very similar on paper but in gusty winds, that mass matters.

Me, I have a 6XC which I love but I see the limits in high winds at 1000yds. Competed with the 6.5s so know all about their balistics. Also, had lots of experience with 7mms'

I actually have another tactical/PRS type build on the drawing board... it will be in a 7-08 or if I want to get real ambitious - 7x57.

But mag options are limiting my final spec. Yes, this will have a honking big brake to tame the recoil.

I see that the PRS is starting a 308/223 class. I wonder if they will allow FTR type 308's into the game????

I didn't see a cartridge OAL spec... interesting.

Jerry
 
The thing to remember about the PRS tactical classification is that it only applies to the PRS Finale match. Most matches that make up the PRS will not make a distinction between calibers. If you shoot a 308 or 223 and finish 30th, you finished 30th as far as they are concerned.

PRS matches don't have all kinds of superfluous equipment rules. You can already shoot an FTR 308 if you want to. You'll finish dead last, but you're welcome to do it.
 
Would be interesting to see how David Luckman would do with his little .308 Win. He beat all comers with all calibres at Camp Perry with one at longrange .
I think it helps that he is an actuary and does a pile of practice at longrange.

Regards,

Peter
 
Any single shot rifle at a PRS match would get obliterated. A detachable mag is a must if you want to be competitive. Having to move to different positions, adjust a sight and single feed rounds? Shooters with internal mags often don't manage to get all of their shots off before timing out. Many people with mags time out if they try to adjust their elevation turret for each shot.
 
kombayotch said:
The thing to remember about the PRS tactical classification is that it only applies to the PRS Finale match. Most matches that make up the PRS will not make a distinction between calibers. If you shoot a 308 or 223 and finish 30th, you finished 30th as far as they are concerned.

PRS matches don't have all kinds of superfluous equipment rules. You can already shoot an FTR 308 if you want to. You'll finish dead last, but you're welcome to do it.
Click to expand...

Did not say FTR rifle... I said FTR 308 LOAD...

Alot of recoil but for those windy days at 1000yds and beyond, very interesting. LA with a 30-06 mag would be the set up.

But if the tactical class is not part of reg PRS matches, then it is not worth the hassle. I would go 6.5 or 7mm for the longer windier days.

Jerry
 
J996 said:
Thanks for the data dusticles. I used Hogdons online reloading data and they list their max 6.5 Creed load at 2694 and 2735 for the 260 both with 24" barrel. How many grains is you friend using with H4350?

As long as 2800 fps is not considered a hot load for the creed that should do it as I don't like to run things near max.

I don't think the 7-08 can match 2800 fps with any degree of safety so all else being equal the added velocity puts the 6.5 ahead.
Click to expand...

I double checked with him, load is 41.8 gr H4350, Horn brass (annealed every 3rd firing), Fed 210M, COAL @ 2.825". Barrel is a Benchmark 5R, 1 in 8 twist
 
EC said:
J996,
I think the data for the 6.5 CM is very conservative. I have an AINA 26" Bartlein bbl in 6.5 CM and get 2832 fps using 42.3 gr of H4350 and shooting 139 Scenars. This is a very accurate load in my AI AX and on my 4th firing with the Hornady brass. Primer pockets are still good I haven't annealed any yet.
Click to expand...

At what temp?
 
Mystic Precision said:
Did not say FTR rifle... I said FTR 308 LOAD...

Alot of recoil but for those windy days at 1000yds and beyond, very interesting. LA with a 30-06 mag would be the set up.

But if the tactical class is not part of reg PRS matches, then it is not worth the hassle. I would go 6.5 or 7mm for the longer windier days.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Even in a 308 Only match, given 2 shooters of equal skill, I would put my money on the one shooting 155s over the one shooting 215s every time. The better windy conditions performance is flawed logic based on a poor understanding of the average course of fire. Its the same as thinking a super long, super heavy bull barrel in Service Rifle will give you an advantage. On a windy day it gains you a point or two in a few long range prone stages, but causes you to lose dozens of points in the other stages that make up most of the match.

You need a certain ballistic performance. After that, lower recoil becomes the more important factor. The stats show it time and time again:

Rifle-Caliber.png


You have to be able to spot your own shots, even when shooting weird positions off of barricades.
 
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dusticles said:
I double checked with him, load is 41.8 gr H4350, Horn brass (annealed every 3rd firing), Fed 210M, COAL @ 2.825". Barrel is a Benchmark 5R, 1 in 8 twist
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Hogdon's data seems a bit lower end then as they list 41.5 as max for H4350 at 2694 fps. I'm glad to hear the Hornady brass holds up to that as it is generally not great. I hear Nosler is making 6.5 CM brass now so that's good.
 
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