bear defense ammo

[hoytcanon]

I have a 300 plus pounder on the cam at my camp at 62..... I dont consider blackies a serious threat though...

They are not a threat... until they are.

My neighbor shot a 400 pounder in his kitchen... it climbed onto the deck and shoved in the patio door... it was rummaging through the cupboards when he came around the corner to see what the commotion was... bit of a shocker... about 30 seconds later it took a .30/06 180 grain to the head... and so did his dishwasher.

 

[Mr.Rigpig]

They are not a threat... until they are.

My neighbor shot a 400 pounder in his kitchen... it climbed onto the deck and shoved in the patio door... it was rummaging through the cupboards when he came around the corner to see what the commotion was... bit of a shocker... about 30 seconds later it took a .30/06 180 grain to the head... and so did his dishwasher.

What? He shot his wife too? Lol.

Boy would a bear in the kitchen ever be an eye opener first thing in the morning.

Regarding the spray, does that stuff freeze? I know how useful aerosol cans are in the winter...(I know bears hibernate)

 

[Superbrad]

They are not a threat... until they are.

My neighbor shot a 400 pounder in his kitchen... it climbed onto the deck and shoved in the patio door... it was rummaging through the cupboards when he came around the corner to see what the commotion was... bit of a shocker... about 30 seconds later it took a .30/06 180 grain to the head... and so did his dishwasher.

Wow... We get them around the camp at the burn barrel occasionally..... That is intense.... Buddy comes home and drops keys on entry way table..... "Honey I am home"..... "Oh ####".....great story

 

[Gatehouse]

What about a few genuine Brenneke slugs and am 870 pump shotgun? I think that perhaps this would be my preferred bear defense firearm in a crisis situation than a bolt action rifle.

As long as you know how to put them in the right place, you should be well armed.

 

[Ardent]

They are not a threat... until they are.

My neighbor shot a 400 pounder in his kitchen... it climbed onto the deck and shoved in the patio door... it was rummaging through the cupboards when he came around the corner to see what the commotion was... bit of a shocker... about 30 seconds later it took a .30/06 180 grain to the head... and so did his dishwasher.

Bet his ears rang for a week, at a camp I worked at awhile back same situation, I wasn't there but a cross shift shot a black bear halfway through his window screen in the kitchen of his ATCO.

 

[popcanhunter]

sorry for gettin this party started then duckin out for the weekend.

so i read that a rifle always beats a shotgun. obviously a 45-70 beats a .410, but id guess a 10ga slug beats a .22lr, so....

concensus has been that a .303brit beats a 3" 12ga slug, but does a 7.62X39 beat a 3" 12ga slug?

this thread has made me less likely to choose spray, as some of concerns with spray seem shared by others.

 

[Ardent]

sorry for gettin this party started then duckin out for the weekend.

so i read that a rifle always beats a shotgun. obviously a 45-70 beats a .410, but id guess a 10ga slug beats a .22lr, so....

concensus has been that a .303brit beats a 3" 12ga slug, but does a 7.62X39 beat a 3" 12ga slug?

this thread has made me less likely to choose spray, as some of concerns with spray seem shared by others.

Your last note there is very unfortunate, spray SHOULD be your first resort and you should have it with you, firearm is a backup. Given you're in a camper your risk is extremely low, it's already low enough even sleeping in the open / bivvying , unarmed. You still have far, far a better chance of being killed by a vehicle while crossing the street at home. Number one consideration of bear defence is we overdo it, there are a hundred unarmed people in the bush for every armed one, most don't have spray either. Doesn't mean they're making stellar decisions either, but your typical Vancouverite does rather well with a hippy mentality and nothing else. Admittedly as a late teen and young twenties kid I did all my hiking, many long multiday jaunts included chasing remote fly fishing, unarmed and without spray. Guns and spray are heavy. But it's fun to have monsters to fear, I enjoy it too, and no sarcasm on that.

 

[15567]

Assume you are fishing at a remote location, known for bear encounters.

It is not bear season and as such you do not have a bear license and in any event would not care for one BUT can you legally have a firearm to protect yourself and those with you?

A locked and unloaded shotgun/rifle in the trunk is not of much use.

 

[popcanhunter]

Assume you are fishing at a remote location, known for bear encounters.

It is not bear season and as such you do not have a bear license and in any event would not care for one BUT can you legally have a firearm to protect yourself and those with you?

A locked and unloaded shotgun/rifle in the trunk is not of much use.

maybe a decent idea; email the public safety minister. ask for an ATC for bear protection. print his response advising a long gun. carry printed response.

 

[popcanhunter]

Your last note there is very unfortunate, spray SHOULD be your first resort and you should have it with you, firearm is a backup. Given you're in a camper your risk is extremely low, it's already low enough even sleeping in the open / bivvying , unarmed. You still have far, far a better chance of being killed by a vehicle while crossing the street at home. Number one consideration of bear defence is we overdo it, there are a hundred unarmed people in the bush for every armed one, most don't have spray either. Doesn't mean they're making stellar decisions either, but your typical Vancouverite does rather well with a hippy mentality and nothing else. Admittedly as a late teen and young twenties kid I did all my hiking, many long multiday jaunts included chasing remote fly fishing, unarmed and without spray. Guns and spray are heavy. But it's fun to have monsters to fear, I enjoy it too, and no sarcasm on that.

im 35 years old. i got into guns 2 years ago. i grew up in the woods. spent plenty of time in the woods. never once have i been killed.
but like you said, it is fun to have monsters to fear.

spray is great for all downwind threats, but what about the upwind ones?

what if i lack the fine motor skills to operate the can? (everything about a pump 12 or lee enfield is big and bulky, large movements)

 

[15567]

maybe a decent idea; email the public safety minister. ask for an ATC for bear protection. print his response advising a long gun. carry printed response.

A bear caliber revolver would be most ideal, yeah I know. Did wilderness carry course and had trapper license over 20 years ago but for the occasional remote fishing a shotgun would suffice. Unfortunately, would need to fear a CO encounter more than one with a bear ...

 

[Ardent]

You'll have no trouble, and spray works into a breeze too, there's a lot of myth and misinformation about it. Picture less fog more squirt, there's misting of course as that's how it works, but the pattern is heavier, denser, and more directed than most expect, you can "wet" a target rather than fog it. I've sprayed bears, once with very lacklustre results it simply wiped its face and became agitated, but I have to concede making them run isn't the point. It's a deterrent that gets their beady little mind off the possibility of you being food, and onto "What is this ####!?" Does it always work? Nope. Neither do guns though, and you'll have a much easier time in the CO investigation if you tried non-lethal first. A predatory bear will usually provide lots of warning and sign of intent with time to deter it, a defensive attack will be explosive and split second, and you're unlikely to get a gun to bear (forgive the pun) in most situations anyhow. Or, simply carry a bear tag and be prepared to field dress the bear you shoot- not so easy with grizzlies, as they're LEH draw animals.

 

[popcanhunter]

not worried about legalities of a defensive shooting.
cant be worse than watching a grizzly devour my family.

 

[rral22]

im 35 years old. i got into guns 2 years ago. i grew up in the woods. spent plenty of time in the woods. never once have i been killed.
but like you said, it is fun to have monsters to fear.

spray is great for all downwind threats, but what about the upwind ones?

what if i lack the fine motor skills to operate the can? (everything about a pump 12 or lee enfield is big and bulky, large movements)

If you can't operate a can of bear spray, you can't operate a gun, and you likely can't walk far enough without help to get into trouble. Have you ever looked at how a can of spray works?

not worried about legalities of a defensive shooting.
cant be worse than watching a grizzly devour my family.

But you're worried about a stray breeze blowing some bear spray your direction??? I'd rather have teary eyes and runny nose than watch a grizzly devour my family.

I think you need to stop trying to invent ways to rationalize carrying a gun to handle the "fun monsters we fear". Your own account of your own experience proves it is VERY unlikely.

 

[popcanhunter]

If you can't operate a can of bear spray, you can't operate a gun, and you likely can't walk far enough without help to get into trouble. Have you ever looked at how a can of spray works?



But you're worried about a stray breeze blowing some bear spray your direction??? I'd rather have teary eyes and runny nose than watch a grizzly devour my family.

I think you need to stop trying to invent ways to rationalize carrying a gun to handle the "fun monsters we fear". Your own account of your own experience proves it is VERY unlikely.

yes ive looked at how a can of spray works. gotta move the thingy over first. looks difficult for shaky hands. my 500 has a big bulky pump handle that im sure would be easier to operate.

i am not worried about spray comming back, im worried about it not going forward.

 

[skneub]

Would a face full of birdshot not buy a guy time to run like he was on fire ?

 

[Robert Nicholson]

Especially if children were in the group, I would want to have a gun along because a small child seems to be what predatory cougars go for.
Of course if the child is in the jaws of the animal, you won't want to shoot but instead use the gun as a club or poker (if no bayonet).
I think that having a rifle along would make everyone in the group more confident and "chirpy" so that hungry predators are warned off.
The surprise encounter with a grizzly at close range is a situation that I still can't see a way to deal with effectively - spray or gun.

 

[Mauser GDog]

no machismo here (if that word means what i think it means).
i have legitimate concerns with spray, like upwind bears, bears that wait out of range until my can runs dry, lack of trust in a can, lack of confidence which i fear the bear will sense

By far, the best bear defense thread yet.

 

[Robert Nicholson]

By far, the best bear defense thread yet.

I think this thread is giving us all a chance to get our ideas out in the open where they can be examined and either corrected or disproved or improved.
Anecdotaly, there have been stories about people spraying while the curious black bear was still out of range so that the person was unprotected
by the time the Black bear finally decided it was safe to help himself to lunch. I don't know about this from personal experience because any bear
that I have encountered either started running away or ignored me so that I backed away.

 

[Ardent]

not worried about legalities of a defensive shooting.
cant be worse than watching a grizzly devour my family.

Alright, this finally appears to have degenerated from fair points to the same old fear stuff again that could result in no grizzly hunting seasons for BC, and dead bears for dubious reasons. On the order 99.99% of the time a grizzly couldn't give two turds about your family, especially if you're in a camper, they may want your food and garbage however, spray is ideal for the vast majority of troublesome bears. Shoot a grizzly for putting a paw on your camper and get ready for court and a lot of fun you would soon regret, a bear also doesn't deserve lead for that, you're in HIS home. A shot of spray and away he goes, lesson learned. Guns have their place but it's a lot less frequent than many on the internet feel is appropriate.

Predatory bears, you'd be lucky to see that behaviour once in your lifetime with your exposure level recreationally using the bush, and I wouldn't net on it. Shot of spray does the same thing here on changing the bear's mind. Cubs defence situations? You're pretty well hooped spray or gun, and a shot and wounded grizzly will intensify its attack, fight or flight- they choose a good deal of fight.