Ruger Precision at the Range - Both Awesome and Confused.

UPDATE on my 243 win

So after shooting like crap yesterday, I was unsure where to start, so figured I would tear the rifle down. I did notice that the barrel seemed a bit loose when I squeezed the barrel and Samson hand grip. Ruger uses a copper ring that looks like a 20 gauge copper wire as a crush washer on the barrel nut. To me, it was a bit loose. I was able to tighten the barrel nut to the next index spot with about 80 ft lbs of torque. Now the barrel does not flex.

I also replaced the scope with a proven scope/ring set.

I also got a box of factory Hornady 95g SST. Results were as follows. I only had a few rounds of my 105g BTHP reloads left but they definitely shot better. The SST rounds shot very well for a hunting round.







It was colder today. The twist may not be enough for the 105g BTHP. My load is probably around 2800 ft/sec on a warm day. I'll try a slower powder and see it I can push up the velocity to close to 3000. Anyone have a proven load with H1000 or Retumbo.
 
Consider shooting the 105's with 0.2gr more and less of where you are now. Maybe try 0.4gr above where you are now too.

Odds are you are simply out of tune with the needs of the barrel. Pretty hard for 1 load to work in every possible rifle.

I am glad to see that the factory ammo shot well.... it shows the gun can shoot.

Now just tweak the load and get those bullets working well. And I am just started testing with a 9 1/8" twist and holes were round... at least today.

Not ideal but the bullets are making it to the target at 100yds. I shoot this in a 8 twist with a 6XC and they shoot very well.

Keep load tuning...

Jerry
 
kombayotch said:
A good article on twist rate and its effect on stability and BC:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...fficent-varies-with-twist-rate-stabilization/

Berger bullet tables now list minimum and optimum twist rates. Their stability calculator will also now tell you if you're compromizing BC. There is more to it than just round holes...
Click to expand...

Their calculator says I should be using 40-64gr projectiles in my 1-in-9 223.
I tested over 2000 rounds in 50, 55, 63, 64gr with various powders and loads and none grouped even remotely as good or as consistent as the "marginally stable" 75gr bullets. Only the 68gr came close.
 
legi0n said:
Their calculator says I should be using 40-64gr projectiles in my 1-in-9 223.
I tested over 2000 rounds in 50, 55, 63, 64gr with various powders and loads and none grouped even remotely as good or as consistent as the "marginally stable" 75gr bullets. Only the 68gr came close.
Click to expand...

How far out did you get those 75gr pills?
 
Yup. Stability issues often don't show up at close range because the bullet is stable above a certain velocity. When the velocity falls below that point, the bullet starts to lose stability. It's quite common in Service Rifle for someone to show up for the first time with a 1-9 twist barrel, shooting 75s. They only have access to a 100 yard range and the load shot great at 100. When they get to the match, it shoots good on the 200 yards stage, then on the close range stage, then they get to the 300 yard stage and only have one or two shots on paper and they're bullet shaped.

Also, group size does not indicate good stability, BC degradation may still occur with good groups. That was clearly stated in the article.
 
Jamie said:
How far out did you get those 75gr pills?
Click to expand...

The longest we shot a factory Savage with 75gr Amax out of a 223 was almost 1 mile (thinking 1600+ yds). In factory rifles, there are 9 twists and then there are "9" twists.

Savage used to be right on or faster... Rem always slow. Now Savage seems to have toned down their 9 twist barrels and the 75gr BTHP is as heavy as I have had success with. My old barrels shoot the 75gr Amax/VLD superbly.

Remember that a SG of ONE by definition is stable for supersonic flight.... all the chatter about raising SG's is to try and squeek out a small increase in reduced drag... MAYBE.

Also, if a bullet makes it to 100yds accurately with nice round holes, it is stable under the ambient conditions fired... It may be right on the ragged edge as is the case with my testing Hrn 105 BTHP in a Rem 9 1/8 twist BUT it is stable under the current air conditions.

You can easily confirm this at 200 or 300yds as I will. And it could fail at sea level????? I am around 2500ft above sea level

Typically, if the twist is not fast enough, a bullet tumbles within the first 50yds but you may see the oval bullet impacts further out.

Another aero tid bit.... a bullets rotational stability INCREASES as it slows down until it hits transonic speeds then other physics take over and can take precedence.

Some bullet shapes will not go subsonic no matter how fast you spin it as the dynamic instability of the bullet overrides any rotational stability you have induced.

Unfortunately, in the quest for higher BC numbers on the side of the box, bullets are getting "stretched" to the point where they work great at elevated supersonic flight but get real sketchy as they slow down.

All I can say is test at the furthest distance you want to shoot to ensure you still have all the goodness you are expecting when you tested at shorter distances.

Jerry
 
Awesome thread gents. As I await the delivery of my 243 Ruger, it is cool to see all the great input and information you guys are putting out there for noobs like myself and others.
 
Esesport,
I have a RAR in .243 that is a very inconsistent shooter showing groups like yours..
The problem with mine is a burr on the leade..
It is easy enough to check out by painting a 105 gainer with a magic marker then loading it .010 or so over/past leade contact established by using a Hornady OAL tool..
After chambering the dummy round the bullet should show even leade contact around it's circumference..

Mine didn't as the magic marker covered bullet showed two lands connected with a burr..
ie. a blob of magic marker ink missing instead of two distinctive land marks..

After shooting a bit over 300 rounds through this rifle it still doesn't shoot consistent groups..


My experience after owning 18 Rugers some shoot great out of the box and some are very frustrating..
 
Return for warranty replacement barrel?

nrut said:
Esesport,
I have a RAR in .243 that is a very inconsistent shooter showing groups like yours..
The problem with mine is a burr on the leade..
It is easy enough to check out by painting a 105 gainer with a magic marker then loading it .010 or so over/past leade contact established by using a Hornady OAL tool..
After chambering the dummy round the bullet should show even leade contact around it's circumference..

Mine didn't as the magic marker covered bullet showed two lands connected with a burr..
ie. a blob of magic marker ink missing instead of two distinctive land marks..

After shooting a bit over 300 rounds through this rifle it still doesn't shoot consistent groups..


My experience after owning 18 Rugers some shoot great out of the box and some are very frustrating..
Click to expand...

What can you do other than that? I am looking for a new toy, not another headache, have enough of those already.Thanks for the info. Interesting it's another 243....
 
I gotta say I must have found one made on friday. All I did was handle it in the store but wow the bolt sucked! It was loose and rattle around and when ever I tried to push the bolt ahead it got hung up on something internally and I had to "jiggle" the bolt handle to free it up. I'm by no means saying the whole line is junk or that ruger is (I love my american rifle but it has a nicer bolt) I just wanted to mention my experience
 
big bear said:
What can you do other than that? I am looking for a new toy, not another headache, have enough of those already.Thanks for the info. Interesting it's another 243....
Click to expand...
Have a gunsmith check out the throat and leade with a bore scope and he can advise what needs to be done..
 
I run my 556 guns at a set range of 600 meters max. I run the 260 too 1000

We found a new spot with well over a mile. I wonder if my 123 Lapua's will do good at 1600? Lol




Mystic Precision said:
The longest we shot a factory Savage with 75gr Amax out of a 223 was almost 1 mile (thinking 1600+ yds). In factory rifles, there are 9 twists and then there are "9" twists.

Savage used to be right on or faster... Rem always slow. Now Savage seems to have toned down their 9 twist barrels and the 75gr BTHP is as heavy as I have had success with. My old barrels shoot the 75gr Amax/VLD superbly.

Remember that a SG of ONE by definition is stable for supersonic flight.... all the chatter about raising SG's is to try and squeek out a small increase in reduced drag... MAYBE.

Also, if a bullet makes it to 100yds accurately with nice round holes, it is stable under the ambient conditions fired... It may be right on the ragged edge as is the case with my testing Hrn 105 BTHP in a Rem 9 1/8 twist BUT it is stable under the current air conditions.

You can easily confirm this at 200 or 300yds as I will. And it could fail at sea level????? I am around 2500ft above sea level

Typically, if the twist is not fast enough, a bullet tumbles within the first 50yds but you may see the oval bullet impacts further out.

Another aero tid bit.... a bullets rotational stability INCREASES as it slows down until it hits transonic speeds then other physics take over and can take precedence.

Some bullet shapes will not go subsonic no matter how fast you spin it as the dynamic instability of the bullet overrides any rotational stability you have induced.

Unfortunately, in the quest for higher BC numbers on the side of the box, bullets are getting "stretched" to the point where they work great at elevated supersonic flight but get real sketchy as they slow down.

All I can say is test at the furthest distance you want to shoot to ensure you still have all the goodness you are expecting when you tested at shorter distances.

Jerry
Click to expand...
 
Jamie said:
I run my 556 guns at a set range of 600 meters max. I run the 260 too 1000

We found a new spot with well over a mile. I wonder if my 123 Lapua's will do good at 1600? Lol
Click to expand...

Sorry, this is off topic, but for ELR shooting, you need a bullet that will go subsonic. Some of the most popular ones will not... so whatever you want to shoot, just aim at the horizon and see what happens.

I like to test 200yds PAST where it is supposed to be subsonic... give the bullets a chance to tumble. It either makes the trip or not...

Jerry
 
EHG said:
It's hard to put faith into something where QC is hit and miss. Is that what I'm reading here?
Click to expand...

That can be said about any budget rifle available now. You can read bad about tikka, savage, remington, browning, sako, and the list goes on. That is where buying online instead of over the counter is so risky you don't get to handle the actual rifle you will purchase. Any factory rifle is hit and miss.

Even though its a 1500 rifle it's still considered an entry level budget rifle for the features it has. For what it's worth my bolt was not great when the rifle was new but a good cleaning and proper lube and it's slick as crap now, I bought the rifle because of what it offered as a factory package (chassis, 60* bolt throw, Mag availability, 20moa rail, cartridge choice, bipod rail, adjustable butt section ect) If I wanted to change those things I would have went a different route as you would quickly loose the value this rifle offers and building one makes more sense. When I priced what it would cost to turn my savage into an equal rifle I had a long wait for parts, a higher cost and still a clunky slow bolt. I have no regrets buying mine. As for the guys who are unhappy with there safety ruger was aware and already has a fix kit out and a video on how to install it. Other than that the only thing in question is the accuracy and if you don't have a shooter there are already 4 companies doing pre chambered barrels from 400-650 depending on options that you can spin on in your house with the proper equipment.
 
If I gave up on every company that sold me a gun that needed work out of the box, I would not be buying Smith & Wesson, Savage, Remington, Ruger, Henry, NEA, Keltec, Marlin, Norinco. Some were simple like a screw falling out to barrels that were screwed on out of alignment. No one is perfect. If they back things up with good service, I am a happy customer.

The Ruger Precision reminds me of a good tuner car. It's reasonably priced with excellent features and I have no hesitation taking it apart or upgrading it. If I paid $5000 for a nice rifle, I probably would be afraid to scratch it or wear the barrel out by shooting it too much. I'm just an old guy with bad eyes so the Ruger probably shoots better out of the box than I can.

Yes, I would recommend the Ruger Precision Rifle. And yes, I do own the expensive rifles. Some shoot a little better than the Ruger, others not as well or maybe it's the shooter.
 
I've seen 3 of these guns in 6.5 creedmore shoot now including this one. All shoot very good groups like this one. I don't think I'd hesitate on one of these if you are ok with reloading or running limited types of factory. The 6mms can be a bit more of a bugger. I'm with Jerry though. Looks like it just needs some tuning. I've found that seating depth is going to fix things the most. My 6XC needs to be jammed 20 thou to get the best results. 15 thou jam doesn't cut it. Doesn't take much to cause an issue.
 
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