Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This has been the best and most reasonable, and most informed, discussion I've partaken in on the subject. A thanks to everyone in the thread by the way for gentlemanly discussion and conduct. 
British Columbia - Proposed regulation changes
- Thread starter 'Boo
- Start date
Think residents will pay $2210 to hunt their grizzly tag, each and every bear?
Secondly, one huge aspect of allocations never properly discussed is actual tags. So, a third of grizzly allocations went to outfitters, who generated $2210 per bear in direct licenes, fees, and royalties before taxidermists, floatplane, fishing guides, etc got their cut, also pitching in taxes.
So what percentage of tags in hand do you think it balanced out to, for residents and guides? 95% of actual tags were in resident hands 2015 for grizzly. It's pretty easy to look at a spreadsheet and have an "Ahah!", the realty is a lot more complicated and less biased than allocation numbers alone make it appear.
Read my post again. Nothing to do with residents.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not spin at all bud, the opposite of spin. I can only intelligently comment on Grizzlies, it's the only animal with extremely limited quota we have, we're not in the sheep zones etc, moose isn't really a consideration either as it's pure mountains. The thing is, I've never seen a resident make the trek in by jet boat or plane, and yet there are tons of bears because of the agreement with the band by the government to stop grizzly hunting in half the territory.
So, like all the North coast we're swimming in bears without the quota to hunt. More to do with the band's ideas on bears than anything, but seems a little goofy to shave our operation to the bone on quota while resident draws are routinely not being harvested. Folks put in for it then realise how remote it is!
I can only intelligently comment on Grizzlies, it's the only animal with extremely limited quota we have, we're not in the sheep zones etc, moose isn't really a consideration either as it's pure mountains. The thing is, I've never seen a resident make the trek in by jet boat or plane, and yet there are tons of bears because of the agreement with the band by the government to stop grizzly hunting in half the territory.So, like all the North coast we're swimming in bears without the quota to hunt.
More to do with the band's ideas on bears than anything, but seems a little goofy to shave our operation to the bone on quota while resident draws are routinely not being harvested. Folks put in for it then realise how remote it is!
On the contrary when you hold that tag you hold the opportunity and government permission to harvest.
NOW- you literally spelled out you weren't talking Grizzlies and I've taken a segway on that, and you'll have to forgive me as that's what I know. Our goat area is open / no limit to residents, so no conflict there either, I do understand it differs elsewhere. One important consideration has permeated many of the government decisions and that is efficiency at filling tags, and the revenue generated, whether this has forced correct or incorrect decisions is a fair debate that will go on for a long time.
I'm not disagreeing with you on grizzly, some sheep and some goat areas. The issues you mention have actually been debated, just not on these forums. But you are not touching on the heart of the issue - concrete examples of which I gave from region 4 sheep and moose. You haven't talked about foreign ownership and removal of revenue generated to other jurisdictions. You haven't mentioned foreign guides. You haven't touched on region 5 deer going to LEH lobbying. You haven't touched on issues relating to decreases in total allowable harvest (especially moose) and how the resident has to take it on the chin in order to allow GO's to maintain their quota to remain "viable". Those are the real issues that have led to the resentment towards your industry. The GOABC went WAY too far and used what I see as unsavory tactics to stick it to the resident, and then claim "we are all in it together" or some other BS.
This has been the best and most reasonable, and most informed, discussion I've partaken in on the subject. A thanks to everyone in the thread by the way for gentlemanly discussion and conduct.
I have been reading and watching this topic as it has progressed, I am impressed by all participating. I'll save any topic related opinions for another time, once I see where this goes and I read up a little more on the subject.
Ardent, what Band's land is your hunting lease located on? Do you have issues with the "Bears Forever" organization and the 9 coastal First Nations?
Feel free to respond in PM or not at all, I am just interested in the relationship between outfitters and FN's in the area.
I am far from anti grizzly hunting, having worked in that area and seen the large populations. I am on the other hand a big advocate for FN's rights and I am also personally acquainted with some of the scientists who have suggested that the numbers of Grizzlies in BC have been inflated by government scientists/contractors and their count methodologies/ grizzly bears range.
Feel free to respond in PM or not at all, I am just interested in the relationship between outfitters and FN's in the area.
I am far from anti grizzly hunting, having worked in that area and seen the large populations. I am on the other hand a big advocate for FN's rights and I am also personally acquainted with some of the scientists who have suggested that the numbers of Grizzlies in BC have been inflated by government scientists/contractors and their count methodologies/ grizzly bears range.
Angus, I get that you are primarily referring to Grizzly.
You would have to admit tho, the Vast majority or resident hunters do not hunt grizzly bears. Much like myself. I'm not a bear hunter, although I fully support the hunting of bears. If you want to ONLY discuss grizzly allocations, well, the problems with the GOABC is much broader than just grizzly bears, but I think you are aware of that.
You would have to admit tho, the Vast majority or resident hunters do not hunt grizzly bears. Much like myself. I'm not a bear hunter, although I fully support the hunting of bears. If you want to ONLY discuss grizzly allocations, well, the problems with the GOABC is much broader than just grizzly bears, but I think you are aware of that.
Not spin at all bud, the opposite of spin.
So, like all the North coast we're swimming in bears without the quota to hunt.
I'd be willing to bet that a huge amount of the LEH entires for grizz in this province are submitted by anti hunting granola eaters who rejoice when they get drawn and proudly display their little "I saved a Grizzly fridge magnet" for doing so. I've seen it with my own eyes. Happens every season in this province. People drawing tags they have no intention to hunt. One of the maintenance engineers at Lilydale poultry in maple ridge is just one of those people.
This happens but it's really not anything to be concerned with. All the antis are doing is wasting their money, as wildlife managers already account for people that won't hunt, and release authorizations accordingly.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Agreed, there's a good deal I don't agree with too from the GOABC side. But like anything there's two sides to it and I can't deny I need them right now in our corner over the grizzly hunt, and dealing with First Nations (again bears, but there's a risk of losing the black bear hunt in a huge area of the territory in the future as well). They also provide insurance I have to have at a fraction of the price anywhere else.
Are they perfect? No, lots of room for improvement and as a member hope I can be part of that. Also lots about the GOABC that is actually beneficial to all BC hunters but that part is largely lost on most these days. The curious state of things is an organisation so hated by some resident hunters may prove instrumental in protecting the grizzly hunt for all British Columbians. Times of strife breed unlikely allies and I think those days will return.
Now, I'm doing this from the cockpit between landings and lots more good points to discuss I'm just running low on the time and technological capability for a little while. Talk soon guys!
That's a financial win for the province if the tree huggers do that.
The number of animals actually killed influences the number of LEH allocations offered more than the number of applications. If the kill-rate is lower than what the game managers are aiming at they will increase the number of LEH opportunities or conversely reduce the number of tags if the harvest is too large .
The more applications purchased the more revenue for the province. (On a side note I personally think a lot of the LEH opportunities such as anterless deer and moose are done that way to increase revenues to the province rather than for good game management purposes.)
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
"Subsistence" by definition is "the minimum necessary to support life". No one in this country needs to hunt to meet this minimum, therefore the word is a misnomer and a euphemism, regardless of who partakes in it.
I would politely disagree with that.... not the definition, but the statement that follows.
there are a great many people out there in remote parts of this country who choose a subsistence way of life and some who did not get to choose, they are just there.
I agree with Mr ACP, to think otherwise is misinformed and narrow minded.
I try to stay out of the aboriginal topics as it always ends up racist or insulting towards someone, usually by those with opinions based upon assumptions and decades of stereotyping instead of factual information.
This has been a really great discussion, Thanks everyone involved for keeping it Civil to many of these discussions have ended up in the toilet.
I firmly believe the road to future of hunting in BC is a shared one, loads of goodwill got squandered in the last year, and it will take a long - long time to regain this lost ground - but this is where it starts. with discussions like this.
I really hope you manage to keep your business above water Ardent, you certainly are ticking all the right boxes as far as I'm concerned.
We don't hunt bears as a rule, but with the way things are going right now, we may just speak to you soon about that.
I firmly believe the road to future of hunting in BC is a shared one, loads of goodwill got squandered in the last year, and it will take a long - long time to regain this lost ground - but this is where it starts. with discussions like this.
I really hope you manage to keep your business above water Ardent, you certainly are ticking all the right boxes as far as I'm concerned.
We don't hunt bears as a rule, but with the way things are going right now, we may just speak to you soon about that.
This is where GOABC has screwed guys like you.
Because of GOABC, residents that don't hunt bears but at one time would have supported you and grizzly hunting- in the interest of solidarity among hunters -now just don't give a schit.
Resident hunters can easily survive a grizzly hunt ban or moratorium, not so with some outfits. There are an awful lot of resident moose hunters that won't lift a finger to support non resident trophy hunters coming to hunt grizzlies in BC, and you have GOABC to thanks for that.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
The unfortunate part is the definition and laws are only applied to First Nations hunters with treaty based rights. I assume you're suggesting that it's not only FN hunters that fit the description?
