Only a single projectile firearm. A shotgun with shot can be shot as little as 15 meters from the centerline of a highway with less than 3 lanes. 15 meters from the edge of the paved surface of a 3 lane or greater highway. Or to the boundary of cultivated land, which ever comes first. Unless There is a specific Highway No Shooting Area that applies to a particular highway or portion of highway. PG 13 of the hunting regs.
British Columbia - Proposed regulation changes
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Only a single projectile firearm. A shotgun with shot can be shot as little as 15 meters from the centerline of a highway with less than 3 lanes. 15 meters from the edge of the paved surface of a 3 lane or greater highway. Or to the boundary of cultivated land, which ever comes first. Unless There is a specific Highway No Shooting Area that applies to a particular highway or portion of highway. PG 13 of the hunting regs.
With all due respect Ardent, you clearly must not have been at the resident hunters' table with the Liberal government last year. I've had meetings with Steve Thomson, Shirley Bond and Mike Morris on resident hunter issues. This government doesn't seem to care too much about the resident hunter. Oh, they give plenty of lip service, but that's about it.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
As residents of BC we enjoy the best and biggest spread of animals anywhere in North America, and I certainly don't see it as limited, look at what residents of other provinces have available. I think the effort that goes into our synopsis and regs shows an extreme concern for hunting in BC, and honestly I feel incredibly lucky to live here. Nowhere else is like it.
Agree 100%.
Just because we have it "best" doesn't mean we should accept arbitrary limitations in order to appease certain groups. The mounting opposition to the grizzly hunt is an example. The GOABC reneging on the 2007 allocation policy and the Liberal government sucking up the donation $ and lobbying and then "renegotiating" the allocation is another example of the resident getting shafted. Black bear closures on The Queen Charlotte Islands - what safety and conservation issue does that address? And the list goes on and on.
You know the story about putting a frog into hot water? You drop a frog into a pot of boiling water and it quickly hops out. Injured, but it survives. Put a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly start heating it up. By the time the frog realizes what is happening, it is too late.
The resident hunter has been sitting in the water for some time now.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Hunting is going to change, and admittedly I'm more exposed than most, my wife and I are invested enough to buy a house in the lower mainland between territory and equipment. I don't view it as an outfitter or a resident, I view it with concern for hunting as a whole. Indeed, native relations is something we all struggle with, and why the bears closed in the Charlottes. That's not going to improve with a new government more Left than this one, if anything it will become more challenging. I have a big personal stake in a present matter as well in this regard.
The number one negative thing occurring for hunting in BC regardless your position is popualtion, and industry. Both affect residents and outfitters evenly, and so does the risk of left leaning government. The resident / outfitter allocations are a diversion that much negative attention surrounds when it's very frankly one of the smallest concerns, we're like two different groups of gun enthusiasts attacking each other when the big question is hunting overall. Easy for me to say, right? Hunting is a far bigger industry in BC than anywhere else in North America except perhaps Alaska, and that helps every hunter in BC as advocacy for maintaining things like the grizzly hunt by GOABC benefits every BC resident. Is it all roses? No, like any question there's conflicts and different sides to each debate, both with fair points in their own right.
The government does notice this industry however, I gave them over $15,000 this year in permits, tags, and licences and I'm a tiny fish. That doesn't include another big chunk in income tax, and the local spending clients did on services other than me for over $20,000. To someone in Vancouver this seems like laughable sums, to me, and the floatplane operator, fishing guides, the taxidermist, motel, and local hunting shop it's huge. I hope we all fight for hunting together in the years to come. I wasn't outfitting in 2007 and my quota is remaining static, I'm not in the sheep zones, only big fish I have is coastal grizzly and those in an over abundance due to the local band successfully petitioning for a closure of the bear hunt in half my territory, before I started operating it.
In the end I think we both hold many of the same political concerns, albeit with understandable differences, and we both love living in BC which is and will remain a wonderful place to hunt for decades to come. There will certainly be changes however, and my dream is to see residents and the GOABC fight together for hunting. It's possible, and it's what's needed, and we will get there whether in good times or as is more likely, bad. In the end we all just want to hunt, and when the pressure is high enough that will bring us back together. Lot of garbled thoughts here, more general commentary than a distinct point, sorry.
Cheers!
The number one negative thing occurring for hunting in BC regardless your position is popualtion, and industry. Both affect residents and outfitters evenly, and so does the risk of left leaning government. The resident / outfitter allocations are a diversion that much negative attention surrounds when it's very frankly one of the smallest concerns, we're like two different groups of gun enthusiasts attacking each other when the big question is hunting overall. Easy for me to say, right? Hunting is a far bigger industry in BC than anywhere else in North America except perhaps Alaska, and that helps every hunter in BC as advocacy for maintaining things like the grizzly hunt by GOABC benefits every BC resident. Is it all roses? No, like any question there's conflicts and different sides to each debate, both with fair points in their own right.
The government does notice this industry however, I gave them over $15,000 this year in permits, tags, and licences and I'm a tiny fish. That doesn't include another big chunk in income tax, and the local spending clients did on services other than me for over $20,000. To someone in Vancouver this seems like laughable sums, to me, and the floatplane operator, fishing guides, the taxidermist, motel, and local hunting shop it's huge. I hope we all fight for hunting together in the years to come. I wasn't outfitting in 2007 and my quota is remaining static, I'm not in the sheep zones, only big fish I have is coastal grizzly and those in an over abundance due to the local band successfully petitioning for a closure of the bear hunt in half my territory, before I started operating it.
In the end I think we both hold many of the same political concerns, albeit with understandable differences, and we both love living in BC which is and will remain a wonderful place to hunt for decades to come. There will certainly be changes however, and my dream is to see residents and the GOABC fight together for hunting. It's possible, and it's what's needed, and we will get there whether in good times or as is more likely, bad. In the end we all just want to hunt, and when the pressure is high enough that will bring us back together. Lot of garbled thoughts here, more general commentary than a distinct point, sorry.
Cheers!
IMHO, what the government needs to recognize is the year is soon to be 2016.....subsistence hunting for the select few is no longer acceptable.
We have good serviceable road systems in B.C and if the need should arise, welfare.....nobody is going to starve!
Ardent is correct, hunting is going to change.
Hopefully its a change for the better for all BC residents....sadly I'm not optimistic this is going to happen any time in the near future, or if ever.
Cheers
We have good serviceable road systems in B.C and if the need should arise, welfare.....nobody is going to starve!
Ardent is correct, hunting is going to change.
Hopefully its a change for the better for all BC residents....sadly I'm not optimistic this is going to happen any time in the near future, or if ever.
Cheers
I may be in the minority, but I am a meat hunter who does not consider industrial, domestic meat as a viable alternative to hunting. Certainly this is my choice and it is arguable that I will not "starve" if I am denied the opportunity to feed myself by hunting. However, I think this perspective you are putting forth is yet another example of the divisiveness of the hunting community. To sit in judgement of "subsistence hunting" and to say it is no longer acceptable is as offensive to me as saying to others that "trophy hunting" is no longer acceptable.
I will not throw any hunters under the bus in order to protect the specific type of hunting that I deem "acceptable". We are all hunters. Period.
If the time comes that in-fighting, mismanagement, and corporate control results in outright bans on hunting, I will become a vegetarian. I sure hope I never see that day.
For the record; I am not FN. If "subsistence hunting" is your round-about way of referring to FN uncontrolled harvest, then (with all due respect) I think you should choose your words better.
Residents and and outfitters should be working together to make more animals, not fighting each other. But after GOABC reneged on the allocation policy and stabbed their resident "partners" in the back, there really isn't that much trust with the current administration of GOABC anymore. Many BC residents went from being fully supportive of the outfitting industry to ambivalent at best.
GOABC's biggest proponent in government is Premier Clark, and there is a good chance that next election the anti trophy hunting NDP will hold power. The average person in BC is supportive of residents hunting for mostly food purposes, and completely non supportive of foreign trophy hunters, so it might be interesting times for outfitters now that GOABC alienated the people that should be their best friends.
Not every outfitter agreed with how GOABC has been handling things, either.
GOABC's biggest proponent in government is Premier Clark, and there is a good chance that next election the anti trophy hunting NDP will hold power. The average person in BC is supportive of residents hunting for mostly food purposes, and completely non supportive of foreign trophy hunters, so it might be interesting times for outfitters now that GOABC alienated the people that should be their best friends.
Not every outfitter agreed with how GOABC has been handling things, either.
Whether or not you consider domestic meat as a viable alternative is a moot point, there are social programs in place to insure your survival as well as every other resident of BC.
AND IMHO, subsistence hunting, or trophy hunting, or any other type of hunting is fine as long as all BC residents get the same and equal opportunity to partake in it's practice.
We are not only all hunters, we are supposedly ALL equal human beings....to sit back with an attitude and suggest otherwise is what I find offensive!
Please re-read what I wrote....I said "FOR A SELECT FEW" is no longer acceptable.
Have a nice day
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That's a fair point and post Gate, refreshing to see cool headed discussion about it as in this thread. I've met several resident hunters through my day job who had made their minds up they were completely against outfitting now, then they learned the guy working with them was one of the evil people. Each then expressed interest in guiding. We all are in the same fight, we all need hunting to have a future and both sides bring unique tools forward in the fight to preserve the tradition. I sincerely hope both sides can work together, and I myself am a part of each. I'd love to see and participate in a resident-outfitter conservation alliance to protect habitat and the sport.
Don't forget Mike Morris, MLA for Prince George and Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, who also happens to be long time friends with Michael Schneider, vice-president of, and mouthpiece for, GOABC. The GOABC screwed the resident over - plain and simple. The business model for the industry is, imo, unsustainable in the modern context without being propped up at the expense of resident hunters. And on that point, you know what Minister Steve Thomson told me? "Yeah, well we prop up the dairy industry too".
Ironsighter - you like eating moose? Why should just over 200 GO's get 20%-25% of the annual moose allocation while you have to get an LEH or travel great distances and then count points in one or two corners of the province? How many of those Germans, Americans etc are packaging up their moose meat and taking it home? Why should wealthy people be able to shoot a moose every single year while you wait for that once every 4, 5 or 10 years moose LEH? Oh yeah, and the new proposed closures in the Skeena are in....wait for it...one of the few remaining GOS for moose areas. YOU ARE being pushed out by corporate control - today. GO's in BC have among, if not the, highest allocation percentages in all of North America.
Oh yes, it brings in whatever $$ thrown around by the GOABC. Except that many territories aren't owned by BC residents...or even Canadian residents. How can that be? Well the Guiding Territory Certificates owned by foreigners are just held in a Certificate Trust Account. How much of the money earned stays here with those "mom and pop" operations?
I'm with 1899 on this one.
GOABC needs to be spanked into oblivion.
I'm okay with BC and other Canadian residents owning and operating guide outfitting businesses in Canada, but the days of foreign ownership and foreign employees in Canada's guiding industries needs to come to an end.
The resident hunter should always come first, be they status indian or resident hunter.
until that happens, the entire industry will get painted with the same brush. the brush that is loaded with screwing the resident hunter and adding fuel to the divisiveness that exhists between status Indians and resident hunters.
I live next to the Canim Indian band and also observe their band members hunting year to year, in season with the rest of us. In my region, the natives aren't the issue, it's the GOABC mucking with mule deer and moose allocations. personally I've had enough.
Untill the good in the GOABC takes on a proactive role in outing the bad , don't count on the support of the resident hunter, you are NOT our brothers.
FYI I am a resident hunter and a Status Metis Indian...... I "choose" to buy licenses and tags and participate in the LEH as a resident hunter..... those days are coming to an end.
GOABC needs to be spanked into oblivion.
I'm okay with BC and other Canadian residents owning and operating guide outfitting businesses in Canada, but the days of foreign ownership and foreign employees in Canada's guiding industries needs to come to an end.
The resident hunter should always come first, be they status indian or resident hunter.
until that happens, the entire industry will get painted with the same brush. the brush that is loaded with screwing the resident hunter and adding fuel to the divisiveness that exhists between status Indians and resident hunters.
I live next to the Canim Indian band and also observe their band members hunting year to year, in season with the rest of us. In my region, the natives aren't the issue, it's the GOABC mucking with mule deer and moose allocations. personally I've had enough.
Untill the good in the GOABC takes on a proactive role in outing the bad , don't count on the support of the resident hunter, you are NOT our brothers.
FYI I am a resident hunter and a Status Metis Indian...... I "choose" to buy licenses and tags and participate in the LEH as a resident hunter..... those days are coming to an end.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Alright, I have a great deal of respect for 1899 and his opinions, however a couple base facts should be laid out, and they aren't disputed by either side of the debate.
93% of all game animals harvested in BC are taken by residents
~88% of all allocations go to residents
The significant majority of territories are still owned by British Columbians, including my family
The ratio is not the highest in North America as was often reported (it's not even close), most outfitters have seen falling quota over the years not increases, the entire change in Roosevelt Elk (now reversed to my understanding) amounted to a grand total change of plus two Elk going to the outfitters... In all of Vancouver Island. Statistically, with 50:1 type draw odds, this didn't even affect a resident's odds of winning a draw. Was it worth it? Absolutely not. It was a PR disaster that pitted ally against ally and even the most drastic changes, Moose and Sheep to my understanding, amounted to extremely little to no functional change in resident opportunity despite splashy numbers on paper. Do I support it? No, it's been a nightmare and a waste of efforts for both sides arguing endlessly over it.
Now, none of this affected me as I didn't stand to gain anything with the species we hunt, but the fallout sure has. Every forum you go to where BC is discussed there's nothing but increasingly misguided crowd anger when outfitters come up. I've even enjoyed my first in person tirade, at a gas station no less, despite not being able to get a word in and tell the uninformed and overly agitated gentleman I wasn't stealing his animals. He'll never hunt where I do, the seasons are open except for Grizzly and because of the park, no trouble with population. We can all hunt but he feels my family's business should sink, despite it being one of BC's oldest industries. Chadwick wasn't a resident, for instance, neither was Jack O'Connor, or Elmer Keith.
None of them were evil or stealing our animals, they were sharing in the wonder of British Columbia and supporting ourt sport and economy. You know where almost half my clients came from this year? Canada. Three were folks we chat with right on this board, and more are coming next year from as far as Ontario. We're just tying to make a living in the greenest industry in Canada because we're passionate about hunting like you. I know we agree on all manner of things and I hope we can come to agree on this too one day 1899. We've yet to meet but most folks when we do initially angry at outfitting are usually quite surprised to find nearly any outfitter they meet is actually very nice, and very regular joes. Not evil businessmen cashing wildlife like cheques.
Well, seems this is bound to go the way of all the other threads I mentioned. I have no doubt the hate Mail will fire up shortly (not you 1899 ).
Angus
93% of all game animals harvested in BC are taken by residents
~88% of all allocations go to residents
The significant majority of territories are still owned by British Columbians, including my family
The ratio is not the highest in North America as was often reported (it's not even close), most outfitters have seen falling quota over the years not increases, the entire change in Roosevelt Elk (now reversed to my understanding) amounted to a grand total change of plus two Elk going to the outfitters... In all of Vancouver Island. Statistically, with 50:1 type draw odds, this didn't even affect a resident's odds of winning a draw. Was it worth it? Absolutely not. It was a PR disaster that pitted ally against ally and even the most drastic changes, Moose and Sheep to my understanding, amounted to extremely little to no functional change in resident opportunity despite splashy numbers on paper. Do I support it? No, it's been a nightmare and a waste of efforts for both sides arguing endlessly over it.
Now, none of this affected me as I didn't stand to gain anything with the species we hunt, but the fallout sure has. Every forum you go to where BC is discussed there's nothing but increasingly misguided crowd anger when outfitters come up. I've even enjoyed my first in person tirade, at a gas station no less, despite not being able to get a word in and tell the uninformed and overly agitated gentleman I wasn't stealing his animals. He'll never hunt where I do, the seasons are open except for Grizzly and because of the park, no trouble with population. We can all hunt but he feels my family's business should sink, despite it being one of BC's oldest industries. Chadwick wasn't a resident, for instance, neither was Jack O'Connor, or Elmer Keith.
None of them were evil or stealing our animals, they were sharing in the wonder of British Columbia and supporting ourt sport and economy. You know where almost half my clients came from this year? Canada.
Three were folks we chat with right on this board, and more are coming next year from as far as Ontario. We're just tying to make a living in the greenest industry in Canada because we're passionate about hunting like you. I know we agree on all manner of things and I hope we can come to agree on this too one day 1899. We've yet to meet but most folks when we do initially angry at outfitting are usually quite surprised to find nearly any outfitter they meet is actually very nice, and very regular joes. Not evil businessmen cashing wildlife like cheques. Well, seems this is bound to go the way of all the other threads I mentioned.
I have no doubt the hate Mail will fire up shortly (not you 1899 ). Angus
you are but one apple in the barrel Angus
and while your opinion and posts are certainly respected here...... I wouldn't be in such a hurry to defend the GOABC if I was you.
the truth is out there and it's not good, denying it is pointless.
and while your opinion and posts are certainly respected here...... I wouldn't be in such a hurry to defend the GOABC if I was you.
the truth is out there and it's not good, denying it is pointless.
oddly enough, my feeling there is that tourists and tourist agencies, should leave the bears (and the whales for that matter) well enough alone LOL
hunting bears is a necessary part of management and I've got zero problem with it or folks making their income from guiding hunters. in fact, for all those tourists wanting to take pictures, they should have to hire an outfitter the same way a hunter does. I'd be okay with that , so long as the outfitter and his employees are Canadians. hehehehe
