British Columbia - Proposed regulation changes
- Thread starter 'Boo
- Start date
That's not totally true. I'm aquainted with other guides and employees of outfitters and know there are others within the umbrella of the GOABC that are similar in view/practice as Angus appears to come off.
the current system and allocation needs an overhaul.
For grizzly, I try and avoid them while hunting and fishing.... Tho with fishing sometimes sharing the water with the bears is a cautious and well armed afair LOL
I wouldn't purposefully pursue a grizz hunting unless I was with some experts.
I'd book a grizzly hunt with angus, just for the experience. Based on seeing what he's been up to all these years via this site and his own site. I might not shoot said grizzly.... But then again I just might
A grizz rug would be welcome in my home that's fer sure LOL
That's not totally true. I'm aquainted with other guides and employees of outfitters and know there are others within the umbrella of the GOABC that are similar in view/practice as Angus appears to come off.
the current system and allocation needs an overhaul.
For grizzly, I try and avoid them while hunting and fishing.... Tho with fishing sometimes sharing the water with the bears is a cautious and well armed afair LOL
I wouldn't purposefully pursue a grizz hunting unless I was with some experts.
I'd book a grizzly hunt with angus, just for the experience. Based on seeing what he's been up to all these years via this site and his own site. I might not shoot said grizzly.... But then again I just might
A grizz rug would be welcome in my home that's fer sure LOL
I've stated that many times in this thread that people like Ardent are the exception to the rule. BUT, due to the actions of GOABC's leadership residents are painting with a very wide brush indeed. Gatehouse posted it as it is.
After reading some of your regs I think I've been going about hunting all wrong. Spent well over 100k on a hunting property, produced my own elk, deer and black bears, paid more than 30 grand in taxes last year, and I still need to buy a hunting license...and I can't even apply for landowner draw elk because I moved to Saskatchewan. That's Manitoba for you! And to think this whole time I could have had a reasonably good chance of shooting a trophy from a wide variety of species in BC for a few thousand dollars and about the same effort. Sounds like a province I would love to hunt and invest my money in. Saskatchewan and Manitoba could learn a lot from British Columbia and their style of wildlife management.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I actually think we do it pretty well, too. 2/3rds of the North America 29 slam are in BC for residents, and on the outfitting side the system of territories and significant investment means you can't go the Alaskan way and make a mess in one spot then just move next year. You have to be a good neighbour, to the bands, to residents... it makes it a juggling act but a healthy one for the industry. While a lot of the goodwill has been damaged these recent times overall the system is a good one and BC has outfitters doing the marketing for them to sell very expensive tags, and generates many more peripheral benefits in taxes and use permits etc. If we can rebuild the resident-outfitter relations we can be quite a force together too, to protect hunting, covering subsistence, sport, and economics aspects of the argument. Sport Hunting in BC is a very old sport, the airport in Fort St John I fly into and out of twice a month has displays including outfitter history. Fort Nelson our prior home has a bronze statue of the Chadwick Ram proudly on display. There's a lot of history, industry, and tradition here and both resident and outfitter that can and will coexist and together we'll both enjoy our sport much, much longer. If you love hunting, BC is the place in Canada, there's nothing else like it.
While I applaud your sincerity, Ardent, at this time there is a serious disconnect between residents and guides in BC. Not just on the hunting side but fishing as well. In order to mend fences 5000 LEH opportunities need to be returned. I can hear the crying now about how they cannot survive without these tags. Our local outfit has four adjoining territories and take the four quotas in one area because it puts more money in their pocket. Not illegal but not the way the plan is supposed to work either. I agree we should stick together to present a united front. Hard to do when you get stabbed in the back like we just did. So the guiding association should voluntarily return the residents LEH opportunities and we will start to rebuild our trust. Anything else is semantics.
07blackwater
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Coquitlam, BC
What bland said
Hey Bland, the question that many residents are now asking is this: "Why should GO's get ANY quota if the animal in question is on LEH?". At any rate, going back to the 2007 model that the GOABC agreed to in the first place would have been OK....last year. I know that there is a significant portion of resident hunters that are now saying we need a legislated 90-10 split across the board in addition to LEH type draws for non-residents. A fair amount are even saying simple LEH draws - using the 90-10 split and no mandatory GO + no exclusivity in territories. The GOABC really poked the sleeping bear on this one. +100,000 voters vs. ~250 GO's does not look good for certain incumbent Liberals, regardless of how much $ the GOABC throws at them.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thing is, this would set hunting backwards, for residents too. The reality is never as simple as it seems. Cut out the business side and sport hunting certainly doesn't gain standing in the province, it's actually a critical ally of the resident hunter. Just as the resident is to the outfitter, and as has been said many times admittedly ill conceived moves were made in that regard.
Those areas you propose to buy are already open to residents, and on top of that the residents hold the lion's share of the allocations and especially tags to boot.
Your money would be a lot better spent on conservation, like buying land and building habitat, or in preventing large industrial projects. Those sorts of moves can and will protect hunting, buying territories is already occurring by the "Rainforest Alliance" and what have you, green movement anti-hunting groups, and those territories being crown land of course remain... open to hunters. The business side and financial advocacy with government has simply been killed. We're getting tangled up in the small picture and the big picture will pass us by. I can tell by the language here and elsewhere there's also a great deal of confusion between the difference in what the GOABC is, and who and what the outfitters are. Everybody knows the difference here but in the heat of debate the distinction is quickly lost, and it's a very important one. I have several friends who are outfitters, all are BC residents and all are concerned with the current state of resident relations. I hope we can all work to repair what isn't a desirable alliance, but a critical one in future years to come.
bottom line for me , and despise my opinion all folks want, Canadian animals are for Canadian residents and aboriginals first. Then, IF and only IF there is enough animals to enable further tags, those go to a select few guide outfits operated by Canadians, employing Canadians.
that is the system we need to be under.... and like the commercial fishing industry..... and any other industry/business, if it's not viable to continue with outfitting based on resident and aboriginal priority, then so be it. that is the natural order of things.
like I said, and I'm trying to keep it polite and civil fugg the GOABC
and I don't direct that at you Angus, and as you are an outfitter, I applaud your engagement of fellow resident hunters here and not being afraid to speak your mind.
that is the system we need to be under.... and like the commercial fishing industry..... and any other industry/business, if it's not viable to continue with outfitting based on resident and aboriginal priority, then so be it. that is the natural order of things.
like I said, and I'm trying to keep it polite and civil
fugg the GOABCand I don't direct that at you Angus, and as you are an outfitter, I applaud your engagement of fellow resident hunters here and not being afraid to speak your mind.
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Why do you need to separate the two? Both are Canadian residents, just leave it at that.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I actually agree with you Thomas, residents first, and BC businesses and employees. Where I am, we have zero conflict as resident / outfitter, there simply is no resident presence as it's too remote when more accessible areas are available. Suppose this makes my position fortunate, my only grief is the unhunted resident allocation hangs there and there's no way for me to petition to hunt unharvested allocations, even if it was only one every second year to see how the numbers are balancing out.
PS, whatever your position on the Guide Outfitter's Association, did you guys know they helped preserve black bear hunting in a 2000sq km area where it was in contention on the coast with the local band? This benefitted residents more than outfitters as the quotas were cut down extremely low to appease the bands, despite huge bear populations. Residents totals remain unaffected, and remain open. There's a lot of that you never hear about, we are in the same boat and I hope we all work together again in the future.
Where I am, we have zero conflict as resident / outfitter, there simply is no resident presence as it's too remote when more accessible areas are available. Suppose this makes my position fortunate, my only grief is the unhunted resident allocation hangs there and there's no way for me to petition to hunt unharvested allocations, even if it was only one every second year to see how the numbers are balancing out.PS, whatever your position on the Guide Outfitter's Association, did you guys know they helped preserve black bear hunting in a 2000sq km area where it was in contention on the coast with the local band? This benefitted residents more than outfitters as the quotas were cut down extremely low to appease the bands, despite huge bear populations. Residents totals remain unaffected, and remain open. There's a lot of that you never hear about, we are in the same boat and I hope we all work together again in the future.
I actually agree with you Thomas, residents first, and BC businesses and employees.
PS, whatever your position on the Guide Outfitter's Association, did you guys know they helped preserve black bear hunting in a 2000sq km area where it was in contention on the coast with the local band? This benefitted residents more than outfitters as the quotas were cut down extremely low to appease the bands, despite huge bear populations. Residents totals remain unaffected, and remain open. There's a lot of that you never hear about, we are in the same boat and I hope we all work together again in the future.
Can you tell us where that area is please?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Kitlope Heritage Conservancy, the Haisla want the bear hunting closed like in the Charlottes across the water. They're effective enough to accomplish it too as the Grizzlies have already been closed in there to resident and outfitter alike, despite an extremely large and healthy population.
There are a lot of these examples province wide that will never make the hunting forums, due to the Outfitter's Associations other actions. I don't think anyone here would argue they are ineffective, and they're the strongest organization fighting for the grizzly hunt. Ugly politics? Yep, messy picture too bag isn't all ugly.
There are a lot of these examples province wide that will never make the hunting forums, due to the Outfitter's Associations other actions. I don't think anyone here would argue they are ineffective, and they're the strongest organization fighting for the grizzly hunt. Ugly politics? Yep, messy picture too bag isn't all ugly.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thanks, the discussion has been very gentlemanly and I'm a little relieved we're all able to talk. Drop me a line about bears anytime.
That's been the line in the past- Outfitters and residents should stick together, so we have more political clout. Now that relationship is in question and many are wondering if supporting foreign trophy hunters can actually be counter productive politically. The public has said loud and clear that they support residents hunting for food purposes and disapprove of what they consider to be trophy hunting.
I actually agree with you Thomas, residents first, and BC businesses and employees.
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So there is an undersubscribed grizzly LEH IN YOUR AREA? Or no LEH or?
I actually agree with you Thomas, residents first, and BC businesses and employees.
PS, whatever your position on the Guide Outfitter's Association, did you guys know they helped preserve black bear hunting in a 2000sq km area where it was in contention on the coast with the local band? This benefitted residents more than outfitters as the quotas were cut down extremely low to appease the bands, despite huge bear populations. Residents totals remain unaffected, and remain open. There's a lot of that you never hear about, we are in the same boat and I hope we all work together again in the future.
The 5 YR quota for the G/O WITHIN the conservancy is 18 black bear and 60 goats. He can hunt black bears outside the conservancy, too. Few residents will ever travel that far to hunt black bears, anyway.
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