Bingo
M-305 or CZ-958
- Thread starter mossom
- Start date
Bingo
West rifle just bought a new shipment of x39 and is selling it for $370+tax. Wait until the old supply dries up and those deals will be hard to find.
They are both plinkers.
The 958/58 will be much lighter and cheaper to shoot.
The m305 is cheaper to buy and its cartridge has more potential but it's heavier and more expensive to shoot.
I prefer the extra power of the m305 but the weight is really an annoyance because I'm built on a cat frame lol. It really depend what you are looking for.
The 958/58 will be much lighter and cheaper to shoot.
The m305 is cheaper to buy and its cartridge has more potential but it's heavier and more expensive to shoot.
I prefer the extra power of the m305 but the weight is really an annoyance because I'm built on a cat frame lol. It really depend what you are looking for.
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
new barrel is $300-$450 USD,
bolt to match is $300 USD
OP ROd $220 USD
GAS system $130-200
Trigger mech $270- $300 (if you can even find one, you might have to build one from individual parts) if the norc housing is ok... $70 to rebuild
Rear Site $120
Main spring and guide $60
New stock $150
New flash suppressor and castle nut $100 (the tack welds don't always break off without damaging it... and most of the norc ones are funky anyways now)
Misc screws/shims $30
Gun smithing to ream the new chamber and set proper head space $400 (. the chamber does not come fully cut to allow for proper indexing and head spacing, and no you can't do this yourself unless you buy a special set of tools, The reamer and gauges are worth more then just paying a gun smith)
it had nothing to do with making it accurate those are just stock parts nothing NM grade other then the spring guide... it had to do with replacing things that came broken or unusable or failed in short order.
I spent a few hundred bucks on other things before I replaced a lot of these parts so realy the whole process cost me closer to $2500 (+ rifle) at the end.
buy a CZ958 or a 858... be much better
Buy something now that I might or might not like...or wait to buy something else later that I might or might not like...hmmmm...
Life's too short. Buy the Norc now. Play with it, decide what you think about it, and then when the 958 comes out you can always sell it and get the red rifle. What's it going to cost that way...maybe a couple hundred bucks lost, plus the cost of ammo?
Life's too short. Buy the Norc now. Play with it, decide what you think about it, and then when the 958 comes out you can always sell it and get the red rifle. What's it going to cost that way...maybe a couple hundred bucks lost, plus the cost of ammo?
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
op rod was bent... and causing issues. I don't bend op rods back, its bad practise in my mind as it just makes it weaker and more prone to failure
gas tube was out of spec and let the piston jam sideways enough to make it fail a tilt test most of the time. pluss it kept banging out and after shimming it was good for maybe 50 rounds before needing new shims.
Barrel was over indexed and chamber cut to match
Bolt was banging out and had allowed the gun to go 12 thou over 7.62 field gauge in one range trip causing case head cracks (which could have resulted in a catastrophic kaboom)
the sear failed and the gun went full auto and required replacing almost all the guts on the triger group to fix... that was on the first range trip
Rear site came stripped and no matter how much lock tight I used it kept hopping about because there realy wasn't any threading left
lost the flash suppressor to the force required to break the spot welds (i was at it for over 2 hours before I gave up and just took a grinder to it, near the end I was hitting it hard enough the bayonet lug broke off) when I took it off and that's kinda required for a front site.
Stock was a POS that had a slight twist in it.
Needed all the misc little parts that fit USGI but not norc for all the new bits.
so what on that list did that gun not need?
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
I think it comes down to this. If you are willing to do some work on the gun to get it to shoot well, get the M305. If you want a gun that is going to shoot okay (not good), without doing a a bunch of work, get a VZ58. Keep in mind though, that neither are going to shoot as accurately as a similarly or cheaper priced bolt gun. For example, the commonly accepted peak accuracy of an M14 clone is roughly 1.5 MOA (1.5 " @ 100 yds). A VZ58 clone in 7.62x39 will hover around 2-4 MOA with surplus ammo. You average factory bolt gun will likely out shoot both without any tuning.
If you get an M14 clone, I would pickup a fullsize M14 from Marstar. Better warranty and QC with the Marstar guns. Avoid the shorties, more problems. Not to say the all have problems, but you are more likely to get a bad shorty which is why marstar didn't bring them in at all. Myself, I have a shorty gun. If I were to do it again, I would liekly buy a full size rifle. Hunting is probably a better idea with the M305 than the CZ958 not to say that you can't hunt with the VZ clone - lots of people hunt with 7.62x39.
Here is a group I shot with my M305 after some tuning.
http://i.imgur.com/jCZLwgs.jpg
This gun has been upgraded with: Match guide rod, peened barrel to tighten the oprod guide, new recoil spring, new extractor and ejector spring. The part that made the most difference was a new USGI walnut stock which shrank the groups significantly. I got lucky with a good fitting stock from TreelineM14. The friend I bought it off did not, he's gone through 3 stocks to get one that shot well. YMMV.
The above results are not normal. I doubt I would be able to reliably replicate the results you see in the above picture.
If you get an M14 clone, I would pickup a fullsize M14 from Marstar. Better warranty and QC with the Marstar guns. Avoid the shorties, more problems. Not to say the all have problems, but you are more likely to get a bad shorty which is why marstar didn't bring them in at all. Myself, I have a shorty gun. If I were to do it again, I would liekly buy a full size rifle. Hunting is probably a better idea with the M305 than the CZ958 not to say that you can't hunt with the VZ clone - lots of people hunt with 7.62x39.
Here is a group I shot with my M305 after some tuning.
http://i.imgur.com/jCZLwgs.jpg
This gun has been upgraded with: Match guide rod, peened barrel to tighten the oprod guide, new recoil spring, new extractor and ejector spring. The part that made the most difference was a new USGI walnut stock which shrank the groups significantly. I got lucky with a good fitting stock from TreelineM14. The friend I bought it off did not, he's gone through 3 stocks to get one that shot well. YMMV.
The above results are not normal. I doubt I would be able to reliably replicate the results you see in the above picture.
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LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
yup all the same gun... went to the range three times.
before the first range trip i put in the new main spring and guide.
First time resulted in my buying a new oprod, rear sight, front site assembly and custom break, gas system parts, trigger parts and stock.
Second trip was the bolt and barrel, complete gas system, flash hider,
third trip I confirmed it all worked after being put together then mailed it to the buyer.
The M305 before it blew up... not enough to grenade, but enough to get a face full of hot gas. head space issue... sold it as "parts only".
seen a lot of them come through my hands for a "look over" because it was having problems since and always the same ####. beyond 7.62 field gauge head spacing, bent op rods, bad rear sights, off indexed barrels, triger group failures..... enough that I will never buy another one.
One poor guy at work right out of the box you couldn't even #### it all the way, and it jammed in a rearish position. the oprod was so bent that it was binding on the top of the barrel. Once again it chambered a nato field gauge. so I told him he needs $200 for an oprod, $300 for a bolt $280 for a cheap barrel, $300 for the export and $400 to have the latter two items properly installed reamed and lapped. he was not impressed about his new $299 purchase.
NEver have these issue with most of my guns....
savage's... flawless
Tikka's, a dream
Swiss arms: wish i had never sold it,
CZ858, quick fix with the gremlin, no issues after
Countless milsups: never any issues.
P14... a 102 year old gun passed down and #### kicked through three generations in my family.... never a problem, cycles and shoots beautifully still puts down a 1.5 moa group.
Remington shotguns... couple minor issues but easy fixes on my end then they worked flawless
Chiappa, works fine
Anything Ive owned by norinco... nightmare, the .22's the M305's infact everything I owned had some sort of blowup...
EVERY SINGLE RUGER firearm I have ever bought has spent time in the warrenty center either new outta the box or shortly after... sometimes twice. 10/22's mini 14's, scout rifle. bad barrels, bad bolts, bad triggers, exploding in my face... they have now been added to my list of firearms I will never buy again.
SO yeah... given the choice between a realy nice, light and handy CZ 958 thats going to be a blast to shoot, cheap to shoot and keep shooting case after case of ammo.....
and a flaming pile of poo... I mean parts that make up a M305 and the constant tinkering to keep it running, part swaping, expensive ammo for 3-14 moa bullet flinging "fun".
I would take the CZ anyday
While the M305 would certainly qualify as a battle rifle, I would not call the CZ958 a battle rifle. Due to the demonization of the English term that was derived from sturmgewehr, I'll limit myself to using the new PC friendly term that Police forces have developed for their own tools - patrol carbine. I would think the CZ is more of a patrol carbine. Patrol carbines have different uses, weaknesses and strengths from those of a battle rifle. Get both and enjoy both worlds.
On a another matter, I heard a police spokesperson on the news radio refer to the San Bernardino perps as wearing "assault style clothing". What is an ”assault style” clothing? Why not call it tacticool clothing like the rest of the world does? Am I paranoid for thinking at that time that this was just to provide sound bite ammo for the anti inquisitors? Sorry for hijacking the thread.
On a another matter, I heard a police spokesperson on the news radio refer to the San Bernardino perps as wearing "assault style clothing". What is an ”assault style” clothing? Why not call it tacticool clothing like the rest of the world does? Am I paranoid for thinking at that time that this was just to provide sound bite ammo for the anti inquisitors? Sorry for hijacking the thread.
