wayupnorth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northern Alberta
so i stumbled upon some of the RIA/Armscor M22 knock-offs for sale and figured it was time i took the plunge.
for those of you that dont know the Rock Island Armory (RIA) or Armscor as they are know in the US makes a knock-off of the Ruger 10/22.
the knock-off is so close that Ruger sued Armscor and from what i understand they are no longer aloud to sell them in the USA.
fortunately for us at this time they are still for sale in Canada.
at any rate ive known about these for a long while, since they hit the stores i had been eyeing them.
now im a ruger fan boy, ill admit to that with no problem.
but i never saw the need to pick up one of these RIA guns as they where not that much cheaper then the stock ruger 10/22.
fast forward to this week and i happened upon a add for some barreled/action RIA M22's for just over $100 CAN.
that got me thinking.....
i have built a couple Ruger 10/22 builds over the years and i have a couple stocks laying around for the Rugers.... and i have a couple stocks that i picked up and didnt care for so they just got tossed into the misc bin in the shop.
with that in mind i decided that i would pull the trigger and pick up a couple of these RIA M22 barreled action combos and drop them into the stocks i had laying around collecting dust.
my hopes where that id end up with a couple extra 10/22's that would only cost me $129 and i could lend them out to those people who forget to bring a gun when we go shooting, save me lending out my nice guns! Also, with 3 kids growing fast i could just let them use these and save some wear and tare on my nice guns that ive built up.
i think thats some pretty good thinking on my part!
so, order in.
then next day i head off to work and im bragging to my co-workers what my purchase last night was.
and they all remind me that THEY to have blank stocks laying around from their ruger builds. i think everyone probably has a ruger stock laying around - thats just a given. now i dont know if this is fate or the gun gods shining down upon us but the gun store just happened to call me to confirm my CC info so i had them tack on a couple more of the RIA barreled actions.
couple days go by and look what arrived in the mail yesterday!
6 brand new barreled action 10/22 knock offs!
(the gun back on the red vise is a 1984 ruger i used for comparison)
so lets put this purchase into perspective.
for $129 i got the receiver and the barrel and the trigger group and bolt and all pics and all put together and ready to go EVEN GOT A MAG!
all i need to do is just drop it into a stock and away we go.
for $129!!!!!
but i cant do that.
i cant just put them together and leave it at that.
nope, i have to take them all down to the last spring and clean them head to toe and i HAVE to compare it to my Rugers!
im not gonna lie, ive been wanting to rip one of these apart and compare it to a ruger for a LONG TIME!
well, last night the kids went to bed, the wife went to bed and i was on days off so i had nothing to do but play!
into the shop i scurried with the dog following hot on my heels and i set to with a vigor i havnt had in a long time, it was like christmas all over again!
so i ripped the guns apart and looked at them and mentally compared what i was seeing to my collection of Ruger 10/22's and one thing jumped out at me.... these guns where based on the older Rugers not the newer ones. so i ran back into the house and pulled out my 1984 10/22 and the comparison started.
first let me start off by saying that as with all imported cheap guns there was a lot of packing oil on these guns.
needed a good deep clean.
then i gave them a good soak in G96 to get them nice and oiled up and protected from the elements.
then i started to compare.
all 6 RIA guns where taked down all the way (ya, did i forget to say i picked up 6 of them?)
then i took down the 1984 ruger and dug out my digital calipers and started to compare.
now i had heard going onto this that the RIA had a couple differences to the Rugers.
the stock was beefier and the barrels where attached different.
so let me tell ya what i found.
i found a gun who's craftmanship is a bit better then Norinco guns.... but not by much.
these guns are all metal, which is good, even the trigger group is on the metal frame like rugers use to be which is what i prefer, so i like that!
but these guns where ruff.
lets start with the bluing.... is it bluing? i think its probably more a paint of anodizing probably.
its not like the rugers.
its a matte like finish, ruff and porous. not bad but different then what im use too.
the outside of the guns look good but inside where you cant see unless you take them apart they get gross.
polishing and keeping stuff clean and neat is gone once your inside, they still cycle and run fine but its nasty, the back side of the bolts are so pitted and ruff they feel like laval rocks!
comparing the trigger groups:
then entire trigger group is a mirror image of the 1980/90 ruger metal trigger group.
i calipered every bolt and hammer and seer and spring and they are identical.
only one difference and that was the hammer.
the hammer is not the same but it IS the exact same as the new ruger 10/22 hammers that the 2014/15 models have.
other then that the trigger group is exactly the same.
trigger pulls for the 6 i have are 2 of them pull at 4lbs and 4 of them pull at 5lbs.
bolts:
bolts are what i think are the worst part of the gun.
of the 6 i looked at 1 was done up nice, cleaned up and polished and smooth just like a ruger one.
the next 4 where ruff, had spot polishing and definitely need a hour with some sand paper and polish to get them up to snuff.
1 was NASTY! it was gross... it has tool marks and miss cuts and it was so ruff on the parts that run against the trigger group that i could use it to file my nails down.... and i did!
the bolt is identical to the ruger one except one thing, it has a hold drilled and a pin in it on the right side rear.
not sure why this is here..... ill have to think about it more to try to think what its for... im kinda thinking its to assist with slowing the rear travel of the bolt????
other then that they are identical.... crappy and crudely made but identical, but nothing that some elbow grease and some wet sand paper and watching a good hockey game while polishing wouldn't fix.
receiver:
identical. paint on it is cheap and comes off real easy but its a carbon copy of the ruger except the barrel lug hole is like 0.2 of a mm bigger.
there is a lot of over paint on the inside but then ruger also does a lot of sloppy over paint on the inside as well so i cant fault them for this.
again nothing half an hour with some wet 800 paper and a small block wouldn't fix.
barrel:
strange.
i say strange because seeing a ruger without the iconic flip up rear site is strange!
barrel is the exact same length and dimensions as the ruger with a couple little changes.
the sites - the fronts are not a banded blade like the ruger instead they tapped the end of the barrel and put on a metal rampped fiber optic tube. while i love fiber optic sites on my guns this one sucks.
rear sites - like stated above no flip up rear instead they stole a page from the Cooey and put a 1906 ramped read site on it, nasty nasty nasty!
by far the worst thing about this gun is the sites.
bad news is the dovetail cut for the read site does not match the ruger flip up ones.
i have a site pusher and a couple extra flip up rear sites and i tried.... no joy.
one last thing about the barrel, go back to what i said about the receiver lug hole being a scootch bigger, well the barrel lug is a scootch bigger too to fit in there. what does that mean to us?
it means that while the barrels are attached with the exact same V-block you cant interchange them between RIA and ruger.
well.... i shouldnt say cant...... the RIA receiver is bigger so you can put a ruger barrel (stock barrel) and after market barrel in and it has just the ever so slight wiggle too it, but once you tighten down the V-block its solid and good.
would i shoot it? no. while it fits and you can solid it up i know for a fact from a conversation with Joe from DLASK that you want that fit to be TIGHT and your in for problems if its not.
you can not go the other way - RIA barrel will not fit in the ruger, its 0.2mm too big.
you could of course sand off 0.2mm of metal but to be able to do that perfectly all around the barrel...... youd need a lathe and the know how to do it properly and if you have all that then you probably could just make your down gun barrel.
what else.
oh ya, the down down screw, the one on the bottom of the stock that holds the gun and stock together.... while its the same size and length it is a different threading. the ruger ones have a tight threading that i believe is refered too as machine threading and the RIA ones are rough threading, so about twice the distance on the threads - in short they dont work.
good news is the RIA comes with the bolt.
bad news is if you ever loose it your gonna be tapping that hole bigger.
on the same topic of screws the 4 pre-tapped screws for the scope base are the same as above.
the same size as the ruger but different threading.
ruff instead of tight.
good news again it comes with a weaver rail (the same one that the 1980-90 rugers came with - not the new model one with the weaver cut outs) and that rail has screws you can use to attack any other rail.
i put a Dlask rail on with the screws for the stock rail it it worked fine.
stocks:
i had a couple ruger stocks and a BC folder that i used for the first 3.
went in ok but was super snug.
i had to tap them all in with a rubber mallet.
i would think that nibbling away some of the wood on the front would be wise and im going to do that i think.
barrel band is right to get on, again the whole front is tight to get in.
you have to pull out the brass ring or drill it out so your new take down screw can fit, not a biggy, i just tapped it out with a punch from the inside.
all in all, really straight forward to install.
tight but goes in with a tap from the mallet.
magazines - they ran all the ones i tried with them.
Range time!!!
took the guns out today to the range and put a box through each one, not one failure or misfire.
all 3 of the guns ran flawless!
in closing for the $129 investment im supper happy with these guns.
i could leave them they way they are but im sure ill start picking away on them polishing up the bolt and inside of the receiver.
im going to pick up a picatinny rail for each because the stock sites are NASTY! but besides that they are good to go.
just be aware going into them that the sites suck and they are ruff inside and you cant switch out the barrel (easily).
but if you can get them for just over $100 youd be crazy not to have a couple laying around for those friends that stop by and you know they are ruff with stuff, of that guy at work that likes to dry fire, or that one friend who likes to pick at paint like its a scab, these guns will be great to keep around for those guys to use.
(again that is the 84 Ruger in the back for comparison)
i took a LOT of video while i was playing with the guns.
i may upload the video to youtube but be for warned it will be long and dry, a whole lot of me using calipers and measuring stuff.
for those of you that dont know the Rock Island Armory (RIA) or Armscor as they are know in the US makes a knock-off of the Ruger 10/22.
the knock-off is so close that Ruger sued Armscor and from what i understand they are no longer aloud to sell them in the USA.
fortunately for us at this time they are still for sale in Canada.
at any rate ive known about these for a long while, since they hit the stores i had been eyeing them.
now im a ruger fan boy, ill admit to that with no problem.
but i never saw the need to pick up one of these RIA guns as they where not that much cheaper then the stock ruger 10/22.
fast forward to this week and i happened upon a add for some barreled/action RIA M22's for just over $100 CAN.
that got me thinking.....
i have built a couple Ruger 10/22 builds over the years and i have a couple stocks laying around for the Rugers.... and i have a couple stocks that i picked up and didnt care for so they just got tossed into the misc bin in the shop.
with that in mind i decided that i would pull the trigger and pick up a couple of these RIA M22 barreled action combos and drop them into the stocks i had laying around collecting dust.
my hopes where that id end up with a couple extra 10/22's that would only cost me $129 and i could lend them out to those people who forget to bring a gun when we go shooting, save me lending out my nice guns! Also, with 3 kids growing fast i could just let them use these and save some wear and tare on my nice guns that ive built up.
i think thats some pretty good thinking on my part!
so, order in.
then next day i head off to work and im bragging to my co-workers what my purchase last night was.
and they all remind me that THEY to have blank stocks laying around from their ruger builds. i think everyone probably has a ruger stock laying around - thats just a given. now i dont know if this is fate or the gun gods shining down upon us but the gun store just happened to call me to confirm my CC info so i had them tack on a couple more of the RIA barreled actions.
couple days go by and look what arrived in the mail yesterday!
6 brand new barreled action 10/22 knock offs!
(the gun back on the red vise is a 1984 ruger i used for comparison)
so lets put this purchase into perspective.
for $129 i got the receiver and the barrel and the trigger group and bolt and all pics and all put together and ready to go EVEN GOT A MAG!
all i need to do is just drop it into a stock and away we go.
for $129!!!!!
but i cant do that.
i cant just put them together and leave it at that.
nope, i have to take them all down to the last spring and clean them head to toe and i HAVE to compare it to my Rugers!
im not gonna lie, ive been wanting to rip one of these apart and compare it to a ruger for a LONG TIME!
well, last night the kids went to bed, the wife went to bed and i was on days off so i had nothing to do but play!
into the shop i scurried with the dog following hot on my heels and i set to with a vigor i havnt had in a long time, it was like christmas all over again!
so i ripped the guns apart and looked at them and mentally compared what i was seeing to my collection of Ruger 10/22's and one thing jumped out at me.... these guns where based on the older Rugers not the newer ones. so i ran back into the house and pulled out my 1984 10/22 and the comparison started.
first let me start off by saying that as with all imported cheap guns there was a lot of packing oil on these guns.
needed a good deep clean.
then i gave them a good soak in G96 to get them nice and oiled up and protected from the elements.
then i started to compare.
all 6 RIA guns where taked down all the way (ya, did i forget to say i picked up 6 of them?)
then i took down the 1984 ruger and dug out my digital calipers and started to compare.
now i had heard going onto this that the RIA had a couple differences to the Rugers.
the stock was beefier and the barrels where attached different.
so let me tell ya what i found.
i found a gun who's craftmanship is a bit better then Norinco guns.... but not by much.
these guns are all metal, which is good, even the trigger group is on the metal frame like rugers use to be which is what i prefer, so i like that!
but these guns where ruff.
lets start with the bluing.... is it bluing? i think its probably more a paint of anodizing probably.
its not like the rugers.
its a matte like finish, ruff and porous. not bad but different then what im use too.
the outside of the guns look good but inside where you cant see unless you take them apart they get gross.
polishing and keeping stuff clean and neat is gone once your inside, they still cycle and run fine but its nasty, the back side of the bolts are so pitted and ruff they feel like laval rocks!
comparing the trigger groups:
then entire trigger group is a mirror image of the 1980/90 ruger metal trigger group.
i calipered every bolt and hammer and seer and spring and they are identical.
only one difference and that was the hammer.
the hammer is not the same but it IS the exact same as the new ruger 10/22 hammers that the 2014/15 models have.
other then that the trigger group is exactly the same.
trigger pulls for the 6 i have are 2 of them pull at 4lbs and 4 of them pull at 5lbs.
bolts:
bolts are what i think are the worst part of the gun.
of the 6 i looked at 1 was done up nice, cleaned up and polished and smooth just like a ruger one.
the next 4 where ruff, had spot polishing and definitely need a hour with some sand paper and polish to get them up to snuff.
1 was NASTY! it was gross... it has tool marks and miss cuts and it was so ruff on the parts that run against the trigger group that i could use it to file my nails down.... and i did!
the bolt is identical to the ruger one except one thing, it has a hold drilled and a pin in it on the right side rear.
not sure why this is here..... ill have to think about it more to try to think what its for... im kinda thinking its to assist with slowing the rear travel of the bolt????
other then that they are identical.... crappy and crudely made but identical, but nothing that some elbow grease and some wet sand paper and watching a good hockey game while polishing wouldn't fix.
receiver:
identical. paint on it is cheap and comes off real easy but its a carbon copy of the ruger except the barrel lug hole is like 0.2 of a mm bigger.
there is a lot of over paint on the inside but then ruger also does a lot of sloppy over paint on the inside as well so i cant fault them for this.
again nothing half an hour with some wet 800 paper and a small block wouldn't fix.
barrel:
strange.
i say strange because seeing a ruger without the iconic flip up rear site is strange!
barrel is the exact same length and dimensions as the ruger with a couple little changes.
the sites - the fronts are not a banded blade like the ruger instead they tapped the end of the barrel and put on a metal rampped fiber optic tube. while i love fiber optic sites on my guns this one sucks.
rear sites - like stated above no flip up rear instead they stole a page from the Cooey and put a 1906 ramped read site on it, nasty nasty nasty!
by far the worst thing about this gun is the sites.
bad news is the dovetail cut for the read site does not match the ruger flip up ones.
i have a site pusher and a couple extra flip up rear sites and i tried.... no joy.
one last thing about the barrel, go back to what i said about the receiver lug hole being a scootch bigger, well the barrel lug is a scootch bigger too to fit in there. what does that mean to us?
it means that while the barrels are attached with the exact same V-block you cant interchange them between RIA and ruger.
well.... i shouldnt say cant...... the RIA receiver is bigger so you can put a ruger barrel (stock barrel) and after market barrel in and it has just the ever so slight wiggle too it, but once you tighten down the V-block its solid and good.
would i shoot it? no. while it fits and you can solid it up i know for a fact from a conversation with Joe from DLASK that you want that fit to be TIGHT and your in for problems if its not.
you can not go the other way - RIA barrel will not fit in the ruger, its 0.2mm too big.
you could of course sand off 0.2mm of metal but to be able to do that perfectly all around the barrel...... youd need a lathe and the know how to do it properly and if you have all that then you probably could just make your down gun barrel.
what else.
oh ya, the down down screw, the one on the bottom of the stock that holds the gun and stock together.... while its the same size and length it is a different threading. the ruger ones have a tight threading that i believe is refered too as machine threading and the RIA ones are rough threading, so about twice the distance on the threads - in short they dont work.
good news is the RIA comes with the bolt.
bad news is if you ever loose it your gonna be tapping that hole bigger.
on the same topic of screws the 4 pre-tapped screws for the scope base are the same as above.
the same size as the ruger but different threading.
ruff instead of tight.
good news again it comes with a weaver rail (the same one that the 1980-90 rugers came with - not the new model one with the weaver cut outs) and that rail has screws you can use to attack any other rail.
i put a Dlask rail on with the screws for the stock rail it it worked fine.
stocks:
i had a couple ruger stocks and a BC folder that i used for the first 3.
went in ok but was super snug.
i had to tap them all in with a rubber mallet.
i would think that nibbling away some of the wood on the front would be wise and im going to do that i think.
barrel band is right to get on, again the whole front is tight to get in.
you have to pull out the brass ring or drill it out so your new take down screw can fit, not a biggy, i just tapped it out with a punch from the inside.
all in all, really straight forward to install.
tight but goes in with a tap from the mallet.
magazines - they ran all the ones i tried with them.
Range time!!!
took the guns out today to the range and put a box through each one, not one failure or misfire.
all 3 of the guns ran flawless!
in closing for the $129 investment im supper happy with these guns.
i could leave them they way they are but im sure ill start picking away on them polishing up the bolt and inside of the receiver.
im going to pick up a picatinny rail for each because the stock sites are NASTY! but besides that they are good to go.
just be aware going into them that the sites suck and they are ruff inside and you cant switch out the barrel (easily).
but if you can get them for just over $100 youd be crazy not to have a couple laying around for those friends that stop by and you know they are ruff with stuff, of that guy at work that likes to dry fire, or that one friend who likes to pick at paint like its a scab, these guns will be great to keep around for those guys to use.
(again that is the 84 Ruger in the back for comparison)
i took a LOT of video while i was playing with the guns.
i may upload the video to youtube but be for warned it will be long and dry, a whole lot of me using calipers and measuring stuff.
