Swiss and Swede on EE

[gewehr76]

Ok Thank you.
I do sort of the same, when I fire Nagant ammo, some cases get cracked due to severe crimp. After that I trim that case to swiss brass length and reload them for 7.5, gives the case second life.

Not yet, I simply drop them in their case and get rid of the bullet down the barrel! lol

Maybe I will tear one apart for you. Give me some time and I will let you know.

If I were a betting man, I would say that they are a true FMJ (no "exposed a$$")

 

[The Kurgan]

Ok Thank you.
I do sort of the same, when I fire Nagant ammo, some cases get cracked due to severe crimp. After that I trim that case to swiss brass length and reload them for 7.5, gives the case second life.

That's exactly what I do. The PPU brass is excellent. However, I doubt those bullets from the factory cartridges are even going 700 fps out of the barrel... getting almost as slow as 455 Webley!

 

[The Kurgan]

Ok Thank you.
I do sort of the same, when I fire Nagant ammo, some cases get cracked due to severe crimp. After that I trim that case to swiss brass length and reload them for 7.5, gives the case second life.

My advice to you is to not over-shorten them. I would trim to at or near 32-20 length. That way, you can extend the life of the brass indefinitely (as the rim cracks, trim a bit off). I find that I get at least 6-10 reloads out of each brass before I get some cracking. The Starline brass is the best for sure.

 

[gewehr76]

Ok the PPU brass is thicker comparing to Fiocchi, however they are crimped the same. Don't know if they crack the same amount as fiocchi I have not shot PPU yet.

 

[gewehr76]

I trim them 27mm to length in order to use them in French 1892 and 7.5 swiss.
32-20 is ok for swiss, however rims are to thick for French and Swedish, just to let you know in case you venture in to those revolvers reloading.
What happens is that when primers are unfired, they are ok, but after hit of the Firing Pin and deformation due to firing, empties do not allow cylinder to rotate with 32-20 brass. Nagant brass no problem.

My advice to you is to not over-shorten them. I would trim to at or near 32-20 length. That way, you can extend the life of the brass indefinitely (as the rim cracks, trim a bit off). I find that I get at least 6-10 reloads out of each brass before I get some cracking. The Starline brass is the best for sure.

 

[The Kurgan]

I trim them 27mm to length in order to use them in French 1892 and 7.5 swiss.
32-20 is ok for swiss, however rims are to thick for French and Swedish, just to let you know in case you venture in to those revolvers reloading.
What happens is that when primers are unfired, they are ok, but after hit of the Firing Pin and deformation due to firing, empties do not allow cylinder to rotate with 32-20 brass. Nagant brass no problem.

I see. my friend Drslav, who has a French and Swedish remarked the same. It appears that Remington and especially Starline have slightly thinner rims. Try those brands if you're having trouble.

 

[olivierlamothe]

I

I have what I think is the very best made pre 1898 handgun a Pre 1898 Belgium made H Pieper revolver that's way ahead of its time its a soild frame revolver with a swing out to the left cylinder and its 7 shooter to. SA and DA gas seal rebounding hammer! mechanics are fantastic.
I think that's why the Mexicans bought a 5000 shipment that extra shot always throws people off.lol
it shoots the 8mm ammo like the French 1892s to but a different type cartridge case .
I like it so much id never sell it there very very rare guns tho so most people have never even seen one let alone shot one.
There a gas seal revolver H pieper came up with the gas seal revolver first , but let the patent expire and I think it was the nagant brothers took his idea for there later nagant revolvers. but they never built anything like the design of the H Pieper revolver tho at that time.
the Mexican Government bought 5000 of them and not many exist anymore.
Its a really cool gun very accurate and I do use it a lot so its not that I don't like all small caliber handguns I just like them to be fast to reload like the French 1892s.
my point being.
If im gona have a small cartridge handgun I want to be able to reload fast . that's why I would take a webley over a swiss 1882 and a Nagant there just to slow to reload for there tiny cartridge and theres better options out there I think the common French 1892 is a great weapon better design for sure with the swing out cylinder with faster reloading.
But there all fun to target shoot with big small there all great fun.

Im not positive but I think Henry Pieper went onto to build some wicked hi end handguns styer I think was one. But he was ahead of his time.

Thanks Dingus for sharing that info on swiss Vs French I was wondering. I totaly agree with you.

Rounds capacity + stopping power divided by handeling hability = gun good or not to use

On the other hand I Never heard about Henry Piper, i could not find any info on that particular revolver on my first google search. Can you point me out some source of info ?

Thanks !

 

[tokguy]

I'm entertaining? Well good, but I don't answer to ' Dude ' actually. Got, oh a couple of pistols and wheelguns myself...down to 4 antiques now. Times are tough.
Getting a few of the pistols back now, they got moved to the son's for the fall. Luger had to go on the block...sad. But they are not a combat arm...unreliable.
Was a neat lil 2 pages of Dutch riding you had going on there, but it doesn't cut much hay...was what 2 of you, lol.
32-20 is a cool caliber, but it ain't no 44-40. That's the short version.
Comparing present cartridge selection ( police and military go with 9mm ) to turn of the century is comparing apples to oranges. Antique stopping rounds are BIG honkers, not an officer's shiny pistol.
And a 38 S & W is a step down from a 455, yes it is. Almost like the next step down to a 32.
Turn of the century 32's are not the equal of 45 caliber pistols. Neat guns, but you'd pick one to ' Go over the top ' with? I'd not, that is crazy.
Here's a suggestion...put it to a poll. Let's see what the majority would do shall we?

 

[mkrnel]

I

Thanks Dingus for sharing that info on swiss Vs French I was wondering. I totaly agree with you.

Rounds capacity + stopping power divided by handeling hability = gun good or not to use

On the other hand I Never heard about Henry Piper, i could not find any info on that particular revolver on my first google search. Can you point me out some source of info ?

Thanks !

Here you go Olivier -

http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies p/a pieper h revolver mexicain gb.htm

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/biography-henri-nicolas-pieper/

 

[tokguy]

I

Thanks Dingus for sharing that info on swiss Vs French I was wondering. I totaly agree with you.

Rounds capacity + stopping power divided by handeling hability = gun good or not to use

On the other hand I Never heard about Henry Piper, i could not find any info on that particular revolver on my first google search. Can you point me out some source of info ?

Thanks !

Get the ' Military Pistol and Revolver Disassembly and Reassembly ' by Mowbray and Puleo.
The Swiss, the Swede, a Pieper ( the Mexican one is different from the above BTW )...you name it. All there in beautiful pictures and detailed description.
Swiss and Swede's are beautiful pistols...I'd just take a 45 caliber wheelgun over them for actual combat.

 

[The Kurgan]

Get the ' Military Pistol and Revolver Disassembly and Reassembly ' by Mowbray and Puleo.
The Swiss, the Swede, a Pieper...you name it. All there in beautiful pictures and detailed description.
Swiss and Swede's are beautiful pistols...I'd just take a 45 caliber wheelgun over them for actual combat.

I'd take an SKS or 12-gauge pump action shotgun for "actual combat".

Unscientific I know, but here's what my light loads (only 3.3 grains of Trail Boss and a 100 grain lead wadcutter) can do. 4x4 fence post, 12-15 yeads away. Through one end and out the other, and a good chunk of concrete off the cinder block behind it. That'll do for me! And, I load them a lot hotter than that (3.7 grains)

 

[mkrnel]

I'm entertaining? Well good, but I don't answer to ' Dude ' actually. Got, oh a couple of pistols and wheelguns myself...down to 4 antiques now. Times are tough.
Getting a few of the pistols back now, they got moved to the son's for the fall. Luger had to go on the block...sad. But they are not a combat arm...unreliable.
Was a neat lil 2 pages of Dutch riding you had going on there, but it doesn't cut much hay...was what 2 of you, lol.
32-20 is a cool caliber, but it ain't no 44-40. That's the short version.
Comparing present cartridge selection ( police and military go with 9mm ) to turn of the century is comparing apples to oranges. Antique stopping rounds are BIG honkers, not an officer's shiny pistol.
And a 38 S & W is a step down from a 455, yes it is. Almost like the next step down to a 32.
Turn of the century 32's are not the equal of 45 caliber pistols. Neat guns, but you'd pick one to ' Go over the top ' with? I'd not, that is crazy.
Here's a suggestion...put it to a poll. Let's see what the majority would do shall we?

What did the Russians have before they dumped and then adopted the .30 cal Nagant M1895 that they then used through 2 world wars, 1 civil war, a major war against Japan and was also used by client states up to this very day as a infantry sidearm (North Korea and a few other previous Soviet client states)? A .44 Russian calibre, Smith and Wesson wheelgun.

Why would they dump the mighty S&W .44 for a measly .30 cal M1895 Nagant?

 

[The Kurgan]

What did the Russians have before they dumped and then adopted the .30 cal Nagant M1895 that they then used through 2 world wars, 1 civil war, a major war against Japan and was also used by client states up to this very day as a infantry sidearm (North Korea and a few other previous Soviet client states)? A .44 Russian calibre, Smith and Wesson wheelgun.

Why would they dump the mighty S&W .44 for a measly .30 cal M1895 Nagant?

I know the Germans quite liked them for mass executions... easier on their wrists! Sad thought I know.

 

[tokguy]

The Nagant was really good for executing folks with one in the back of the head. That's not combat. And 3rd world countries tend to take any free weapons.
Put it to a poll; 32 or 45? Over the top, which one?
That ought to settle it, no...?

 

[mkrnel]

Get the ' Military Pistol and Revolver Disassembly and Reassembly ' by Mowbray and Puleo.
The Swiss, the Swede, a Pieper ( the Mexican one is different from the above BTW )...you name it. All there in beautiful pictures and detailed description.
Swiss and Swede's are beautiful pistols...I'd just take a 45 caliber wheelgun over them for actual combat.

Only slightly in looks, they are both the same calibre, hold as many cartridges and use the same gas seal operation, I guess you could say the same about how a Colt M1889 is different from a Colt M1892 and a Colt M1895 is different again -

 

[tokguy]

A Colt 1889 is very different from a 1892. Perhaps you ought to get your facts straight before expounding.
Opinion is one thing, facts are another.
An 1895 is pretty much identical to a '92 though

 

[The Kurgan]

The Nagant was really good for executing folks with one in the back of the head. That's not combat. And 3rd world countries tend to take any free weapons.
Put it to a poll; 32 or 45? Over the top, which one?
That ought to settle it, no...?

So, I guess the Swiss military were not well armed? Funny, since the model 1882/29 was in active service well into the 1960's!

polls on CGN? Now that's scientific!

 

[tokguy]

They never actually saw much combat did they? As opposed to say...the United States, Britain or Canada?
And there was some greasy stuff going on with Germany behind the scenes too...the Swiss are as not lily white as many would believe. They helped the Nazi's hide a lot of money...blood money. The Nazi's kind of wanted a place to hide their ill gotten gains IIRC...Switzerland? Perfect!

 

[The Kurgan]

They never actually saw much combat did they? As opposed to say...the United States, Britain or Canada?
And there was some greasy stuff going on with Germany behind the scenes too...the Swiss are as not lily white as many would believe. They helped the Nazi's hide a lot of money...blood money. The Nazi's kind of wanted a place to hide their ill gotten gains IIRC...Switzerland? Perfect!

I think we're veering off topic lol

 

[tokguy]

Poll it, I don't care enough to. Too tired, shouldn't even be dycking around arguing here, lol
And you are right, we have veer'd off topic
BTW, I have an 1889, an 1892 & an 1895. P*ss poor examples of a revolver IMO.
Swiss and Swede's are exceptional revolvers, just an anemic round IMO