Looking for a discreet alternative to the traditional rifle case

Carrying concealed weapon

90 (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Section 90 of the criminal code of Canada if you still wanna argue...
 
OldFrankHog said:
Carrying concealed weapon

90 (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Section 90 of the criminal code of Canada if you still wanna argue...
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thats the thing is it is up to interpretation like most poorly worded canadian laws, sure you may not go to prison and it will probably get acquitted or thrown out but you will spend a crapload of money on lawyers etc to avoid getting railroaded.
 
Yes everything is up to interpretation, yes could ultimately mean no and vice versa. Let common sense prevail, you will not get charged for "hidding" your rifle in a non-gun shapped case unless you are going to rob a bank with it. Then again, that could be open to interpretation...
 
Brian46 said:
no, transporting firearms using the guidelines set out in the act is not concealment nor is concealment stated anywhere as a requirement of the act
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Actually, I am not sure that is true. The SCC in Felawka only stated that obeying transport regs is an exception to the prohibition as set out s. 89, not that it wasn't concealment:

The regulations that cause greater difficulty are those that oblige the owner to place his gun in a trunk or luggage compartment -- a container that from the outside does not signal to the public the presence of a gun. Recently enacted federal regulations on the transportation of firearms stipulate that a person may transport a firearm in a vehicle that is not attended only if the firearm is unloaded and either locked in the t trunk or is not visible from outside the locked vehicle: Storage, Display, Handling and Transportation of Certain Firearms Regulations, SOR/92-459, ss. 10(2), 12(2) and (3). In my view, this is a sound regulations whose purpose is clearly to prevent the theft of firearms from unattended vehicles. A stolen firearm can be misused and thus constitutes a grave danger to society. Compliance with this very sensible regulation should not result in a conviction for carrying a concealed weapon. Rather, it should be seen as an exception to the prohibition otherwise in place under s. 89.
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WetCoast said:
Actually, I am not sure that is true. The SCC in Felawka only stated that obeying transport regs is an exception to the prohibition as set out s. 89, not that it wasn't concealment:
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That ruling relates to transport regulations in regards to unattended vehicles. Nothing to do with the example I posted
Brian46 said:
you can get a concealed weapon charge for a firearm or weapon being found in a vehicle you were operating that was "hidden" out of plain sight.

If you couldn't be charged if it was in a case, all criminals would transport their firearms this way to avoid such a charge.
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unless of course your contention is you can be "operating" a vehicle while not being in it?
 
OldFrankHog said:
Carrying concealed weapon

90 (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.

Section 90 of the criminal code of Canada if you still wanna argue...
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the number of civilian CCW permit holders in this country is very low. If you are one of the few, I would like to know what you put on your application (so would the rest of CGN)
 
Brian46 said:
That ruling relates to transport regulations in regards to unattended vehicles. Nothing to do with the example I posted

unless of course your contention is you can be "operating" a vehicle while not being in it?
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Good point, I stand corrected. I appreciate your civility in your correction of what I said. I was focused on your "...transporting firearms using the guidelines...." statement that seemed pretty broad to me without reading your earlier posts about actual transport. I have no knowledge of the legal definition of "operating" so can't meaningfully speak to that.

Since I expect you have far more knowledge on this than I do, have there been convictions post Felawka under s.89 that provide guidance? Preferably ones where the accused wasn't enroute to a bank robbery as OldFrankHog suggested? Are "regular Joe's" being convicted?

I would love to get more clarity on where concealment begins and ends. Seems pretty grey to me.
 
Brian46 said:
x2

be very careful if you are ever stopped and have your firearms checked by a police officer during transport. you will likely be questioned as to why you are not using a regular firearm case and answering you don't like people to know what you are carrying can be taken as "intent to conceal".

I used a regular suitcase up until I was questioned and warned, depending on the officer this could have ended very differently for myself.
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What I'm curious about is how did what was in the suitcase come up in the first place? Also you've already pointed out that intent is pretty important, in this case is it concealment with intent to use the firearm in some criminal way, or you live in a bad neighborhood and you're just being discrete. If that couldn't be cleared up in about two seconds, they're after you for something else, or the Police Officer is far too stupid to be carrying a gun and you should fear for your life.

Also I don't recall any statement like a case must be clearly marked to show it contains a firearm, but the firearm does have to be in a case. I'm pretty sure if it met the other requirements it could be shaped like a Carp.

If the Police want to be stupid there isn't much you can do about it, I'm much more worried about some clown kicking in my door because I wasn't discrete than sorting out some misunderstanding about a policeman making some assumption about what I'm up to that day.
 
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How can it be concealed if you disclose that you have a firearm in ### case. I use them because I don't want my nosy neighbors to know.

I mean if you mail a firearm they want you to be discrete when packing it, so is that considering conceal shipping?

What about those old timer bulleye that use those wooden box , that they can mount their spotting scopes on. Its nothing more than a tool box. Wouldnt those be considered ( concealed )
 
WetCoast said:
I would love to get more clarity on where concealment begins and ends. Seems pretty grey to me.
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It is very grey and there lies the problem, arrest and charges are costly even if frivolous as you will spend thousands on a lawyer even if you never go to trial.

Intent plays a large part in a concealed charge, for example here in BC our public transportation company Translink does not allow people to transport firearms on their buses, trains, etc so there are people who take public transportation that use obscure cases to get around this policy, so not only will you be fined by the transit authority if caught, your intent to conceal what you were carrying can get you a criminal charge as well because of your intent.
 
redshooter said:
So am I to assume that I should be leaving everything in the back seat till I get to the store, then drag it all out in front of all in the lot and put it in my trunk?
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up to you what you do, concealment and following legal transportation regulations are not the same thing in the eyes of the law
 
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OkayShooter said:
How can it be concealed if you disclose that you have a firearm in ### case. I use them because I don't want my nosy neighbors to know.
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I think you missed the title of the thread "Looking for a discreet alternative to the traditional rifle case"

why would the OP be looking for a discreet alternative to a traditional rifle case if he is going to be forthcoming with carrying firearms if questioned as to what is actually in the case?
 
^^ Because he doesn't want people who don't need to know he has guns, that he has guns. As in neighbours and random people. How many times do we have to repeat that?
 
fenceline said:
People really should read this....

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1073/index.do

In short, concealing a gun to keep from alarming the public is still carrying a concealed weapon. Supreme Court ruling. This guys defense was that he was trying to be discreet. It didn't work.
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I guess what you say to the LEO is what matters. I suppose you should always say, if asked you are just following safe transport/storage reg instead of trying to be discreet about having a firearm.
 
bsand said:
I guess what you say to the LEO is what matters. I suppose you should always say, if asked you are just following safe transport/storage reg instead of trying to be discreet about having a firearm.
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What matters is if you know you are carrying a gun, and you take steps to hide the fact you are carrying a gun.

That ruling even notes that guns that break down to fit into a suit case are not concealed as long as the suitcase clearly shows it to be carrying a gun. It is mentioned that gun cases are obviously for guns, and thus aren't concealed.

The two parts of the offences are knowingly carrying a firearm, and knowingly doing something to hide the fact you are carrying a gun.

Like alter a guitar case so no one knows what is inside.
 
bsand said:
I guess what you say to the LEO is what matters. I suppose you should always say, if asked you are just following safe transport/storage reg instead of trying to be discreet about having a firearm.
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Yup

This crap always comes up when someone asks about a discrete case. All the internet lawyers come out to try and frighten everyone. Use whatever case you want that meets your needs and any transport law needs. Put a little "GUN CASE" sticker on it if you want to. Use your head under the very rare circumstances you may be talking to police. Don't act like an idiot.

That Felakwa case ALWAYS comes up. I guess it has some value. It reminds us not to half ass wrap a rifle with your jacket and get on public transit then tell employees you are going on a killing spree. Other than that the only other part that is important is that it tells us that if a case is clearly marked as a firearm case it's not concealed. So use whatever case you want. Apply your sticker. Don't be a idiot. That's the most important part. Not being an idiot
 
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