question about dog catching grouse

Suther said:
If what others have suggested is true, and your dog doing the killing is in fact harassing wild life (I guess your dog doesnt have a hunting license eh? lol) then I think the best course of action would be to keep her on a leash when out in the bushes where grouse may happen to be... Besides, its not like shes gonna know if its in season or not...
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I see a few options , a leash ...... teach her to leave the grouse alone and let me know where it is so I can shoot it first ....... or have her take the core program [ and insist on a translator , since English is a second language for her ] I wonder what the requirements for a youth hunting licence are :D


now if I could just teach her to track down wild piggies :D
 
Well you really should discuss this with your local 'MNR' or whatever they are called in your province....I have a feeling you are not going to like their answers....and I suspect they really don't care what the dog 'understands'... just what it does...for which I think you will find they hold the owner accountable.
 
kamlooky said:
I dare ask, have you ever taken this dog fishing?
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not yet ...... but how could one resist all those tasty snacks swimming by in the fraser river come august :D .....

it is probably preferable than her catching her "chicken " dinner ..... :D




and for anyone reading this , she isn't some out of control killing machine ...............

watch some youtube videos on cattle dogs working cattle , they follow their owners instructions exactly , with out question ..... since she likes grouse , and rabbits apparently , I think it is very possible to teach her to do this on command .


I think there are possibilities with wild pigs , since there are pretty much no restrictions on them .
 
sgt.rock said:
Does anyone else besides me think its a bad suggestion to "keep the dog on a leash" while hunting? I did that once, and my GODDAMNED DOG lunged at a grouse I didn't see about 3 feet away in a branch about a foot off the ground. I lost my balance, and when I fell, my loaded (but not cocked) shotgun got a FOUR INCH GOUGE about 1/2" deep on the beautiful wood stock, and a dent in the left barrel of the shotgun that rendered it unusable. I also (while trying my best to stop the fall the whole time I was falling, I ended up skinning out my elbow almost to the bone. Had I been drunk, I am sure I would have landed unhurt!! ) Needless to say..............................that's the last time I ever "leashed" a hunting dog to my body WHILE CARRYING A GUN. Come to think of it, it's the last time he went bird hunting with me also......
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"Yeh" I feel/felt your pain on this one. One of my first labs had the bad habit of breaking when ducks started coming in. I made up a 25 ft. lead and put her on it, with the other end around my ankle. I figured she would break hit the end of the lead at full tilt, flip herself backwards and learn to hold, and I would be strong enough to hold her. Well all went as planned except for the part of me being strong and heavy enough to hold her. Ducks came in, I shot, she broke, when she hit the end of that lead I was on my back and being dragged into the pond in less than a second. Yes Sir that lab taught me a valuable lesson that day. Hunting dogs should only be on short leashes 18", and only when your gun is unloaded, and while doing so you have a firm hand wrist grip on both leash and gun, and this is usually only when around the truck and road etc. other than that the dog is off lead.
 
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sgt.rock said:
Does anyone else besides me think its a bad suggestion to "keep the dog on a leash" while hunting? I did that once, and my GODDAMNED DOG lunged at a grouse I didn't see about 3 feet away in a branch about a foot off the ground. I lost my balance, and when I fell, my loaded (but not cocked) shotgun got a FOUR INCH GOUGE about 1/2" deep on the beautiful wood stock, and a dent in the left barrel of the shotgun that rendered it unusable. I also (while trying my best to stop the fall the whole time I was falling, I ended up skinning out my elbow almost to the bone. Had I been drunk, I am sure I would have landed unhurt!! ) Needless to say..............................that's the last time I ever "leashed" a hunting dog to my body WHILE CARRYING A GUN. Come to think of it, it's the last time he went bird hunting with me also......
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Boo hoo I scratched my gun. Beats having the CO confiscate my hunting licence or slap me with a fine for harassing wildlife.

If your dog cannot behave in an appropriate manner then don't take it hunting.
 
I seem to recall harassing as being one of the definitions of hunting in every provinces set of regulations I have ever picked up. I think a CO would be hard pressed to have any charge stick for your dog catching a grouse while you walked it and especially catching a flushed bird during the hunting season. Bird dogs are not required to be licensed, at least not here and they are used for "hunting" not just retrieving. I have never seen anything in a set of regulations that stipulates your bird dog cannot hunt including catching birds. It happens. If I was confronted by a CO about it I would suggest he charge the dog and fight him in court.
 
the spank said:
I seem to recall harassing as being one of the definitions of hunting in every provinces set of regulations I have ever picked up. I think a CO would be hard pressed to have any charge stick for your dog catching a grouse while you walked it and especially catching a flushed bird during the hunting season. Bird dogs are not required to be licensed, at least not here and they are used for "hunting" not just retrieving. I have never seen anything in a set of regulations that stipulates your bird dog cannot hunt including catching birds. It happens. If I was confronted by a CO about it I would suggest he charge the dog and fight him in court.
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Well stated and sums it up.
 
the spank said:
I seem to recall harassing as being one of the definitions of hunting in every provinces set of regulations I have ever picked up. I think a CO would be hard pressed to have any charge stick for your dog catching a grouse while you walked it and especially catching a flushed bird during the hunting season. Bird dogs are not required to be licensed, at least not here and they are used for "hunting" not just retrieving. I have never seen anything in a set of regulations that stipulates your bird dog cannot hunt including catching birds. It happens. If I was confronted by a CO about it I would suggest he charge the dog and fight him in court.
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he would probably have the dog euthanized...
 
"Boo hoo I scratched my gun. Beats having the CO confiscate my hunting licence or slap me with a fine for harassing wildlife.

If your dog cannot behave in an appropriate manner then don't take it hunting. " Sather



BOOHOO yourself. Your dog must be just so awesome and textbook in his behaviour. Did you read beyond the first sentence? I haven't taken him since, and you are talking out of your azz. I am an admitted poor dog trainer, and it's not like I am tripping over DOG TRAINING PROGRAMS up here in the North.
Your DOG "harassing wildlife" does not equal YOU harassing wildlife. Educate yourself before you open your mouth. And the gun that got scratched cost me $1400. I was talking about the safety of having an animal ATTACHED to you while carrying a gun. Fine for a little Yorkie or other 7lb dog, but a big Lab or other dog can lunge unexpectedly , causing a safety issue if you don't expect it.
Harassment of wildlife is more along the lines of premeditated behaviour. Not your non-human companion who does what animals do naturally. Last time I checked, no dogs have ever read and understood the wildlife act, therefore , how can they be held accountable for what they do.
 
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sgt.rock said:
"Boo hoo I scratched my gun. Beats having the CO confiscate my hunting licence or slap me with a fine for harassing wildlife.

If your dog cannot behave in an appropriate manner then don't take it hunting. " Sather



BOOHOO yourself. Your dog must be just so awesome and textbook in his behaviour. Did you read beyond the first sentence? I haven't taken him since, and you are talking out of your azz. I am an admitted poor dog trainer, and it's not like I am tripping over DOG TRAINING PROGRAMS up here in the North.
Your DOG "harassing wildlife" does not equal YOU harassing wildlife. Educate yourself before you open your mouth. And the gun that got scratched cost me $1400. I was talking about the safety of having an animal ATTACHED to you while carrying a gun. Fine for a little Yorkie or other 7lb dog, but a big Lab or other dog can lunge unexpectedly , causing a safety issue if you don't expect it.
Harassment of wildlife is more along the lines of premeditated behaviour. Not your non-human companion who does what animals do naturally. Last time I checked, no dogs have ever read and understood the wildlife act, therefore , how can they be held accountable for what they do.
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I completely agree with your posts .... a leashed dog while hunting is not only silly , it is unsafe ......

and with that said the dog taken out hunting should be very well trained ... it is the untrained ones running wildlife to exhaustion that cause grief and inane laws for the rest of us .
 
Owners are responsible for their dogs. If your dog goes to the neighbors and kills 20 chickens, the neighbor is going to look for compensation from you, not the dog. If your dog bites a child, the animal may be "put down" but it will be you that ends up in civil court.

If your dog catches grouse during hunting season, while you are licenced, that is not a problem, other than the fact that you have an unsteady, poorly trained dog. However, you also state that the dog catches the grouse and then brings back the "dead" bird... the fact that the dog is killing the bird would indicate it has "hardmouth." Are the birds crushed when you receive them? Hardmouth is a very negative trait for any hunting dog, and it can be genetically introduce, no reputable breeder will breed a dog with hardmouth. Your dog is not a standard Sporting breed, so this may not be of concern, but I personally would have the dog spayed or neutered. The onus would be on you to protect wildlife from your dog during non-hunting seasons, particularly during the nesting and rearing times... when chick's have left the nest but are not flying yet they are very vulnerable.
 
mrgoat said:
...Here in Ontario for example dogs running at large chasing deer can be shot.
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Could you kindly post a link to regs that permit this?

It's my understanding that you're correct when it comes to protecting livestock and property, but I don't know of any provision for protecting wildlife. I've been wrong before though...
 
kodiakjack said:
Could you kindly post a link to regs that permit this?

It's my understanding that you're correct when it comes to protecting livestock and property, but I don't know of any provision for protecting wildlife. I've been wrong before though...
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There is no regulation stating that you "can" shoot a loose dog, but in many areas of Ontario, there are regulations stipulating that dogs may "not" run loose or harass wildlife (deer). Deer are particularly sensitive in yarding areas toward the end of winter, already stressed to the max, a dog loose in the yard can kill several deer by literally running them to death.

For example, it was understood on Manitoulin Island that a loose dog found chasing deer was deserving of a bullet, and should that occur on private property (basically all of the island), the practice was encouraged, by general consensus.
 
essorx said:
he would probably have the dog euthanized...
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Excuse my language but are you out to ####ing lunch?!!! You obviously have never owned or hunted over any kind of hunting dog?!! A CO is not going to confiscate your hunting dog and have it euthanized for doing what it is trained to do which is hunt!! If you ever get a hunting dog please report back to us how the training went when you got to the part where you sit down with your dog and read the regulations to him prior to the hunt. In fact pick up a set and read them and get familiar with them yourself. Memorize the section about euthanizing hunting dogs that hunt!! f:P:2:f:P:2:f:P:2:
 
sgt.rock said:
"Boo hoo I scratched my gun. Beats having the CO confiscate my hunting licence or slap me with a fine for harassing wildlife.

If your dog cannot behave in an appropriate manner then don't take it hunting. " Sather



BOOHOO yourself. Your dog must be just so awesome and textbook in his behaviour. Did you read beyond the first sentence? I haven't taken him since, and you are talking out of your azz. I am an admitted poor dog trainer, and it's not like I am tripping over DOG TRAINING PROGRAMS up here in the North.
Your DOG "harassing wildlife" does not equal YOU harassing wildlife. Educate yourself before you open your mouth. And the gun that got scratched cost me $1400. I was talking about the safety of having an animal ATTACHED to you while carrying a gun. Fine for a little Yorkie or other 7lb dog, but a big Lab or other dog can lunge unexpectedly , causing a safety issue if you don't expect it.
Harassment of wildlife is more along the lines of premeditated behaviour. Not your non-human companion who does what animals do naturally. Last time I checked, no dogs have ever read and understood the wildlife act, therefore , how can they be held accountable for what they do.
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Yes 100%, having your hunting dog attached to your body while hunting is not a safe practice indeed. When I would train my labs on upland birds I would attach a 50' plastic coated check cord to them that dragged along behind them allowing me to step on the end to teach them the maximum distance I wanted them from me while hunting. I also used that check cord to prevent breaking to shot on both upland and waterfowl. And I can also understand not wanting your gun scratched up. Use a check cord and get back out there and do some training. Both you and your dog will appreciate it!!
 
the spank said:
Yes 100%, having your hunting dog attached to your body while hunting is not a safe practice indeed. When I would train my labs on upland birds I would attach a 50' plastic coated check cord to them that dragged along behind them allowing me to step on the end to teach them the maximum distance I wanted them from me while hunting. I also used that check cord to prevent breaking to shot on both upland and waterfowl. And I can also understand not wanting your gun scratched up. Use a check cord and get back out there and do some training. Both you and your dog will appreciate it!!
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I agree... I have check-cord trained most of our dogs... a select few were self ranging and didn't push the limits... but for the most part, dogs are like kids, they will push the envelope as far as you will let them... you need to train both.
 
kodiakjack said:
Could you kindly post a link to regs that permit this?

It's my understanding that you're correct when it comes to protecting livestock and property, but I don't know of any provision for protecting wildlife. I've been wrong before though...
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Kodiakjack

My basis for making the statement that dogs running at large can be shot in Ontario for chasing deer came from speaking with a CO in the Barrie Orillia area years ago. He stated he had and will shoot dogs that he observes harassing and chasing deer. Whether or not there is an actual Ontario statute to back him up I do not know. I just took the man at his word.

Of course this would apply to dogs that were not lawfully allowed to be doing so during the open season for deer in an area that dogs were not allowed for hunting deer.
 
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