Remington 870's in 16 Gauge - discussion

Claven2

Claven2

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This is the promised thread that is spilling over from discussion of recent manufacture 16 gauge 870's that began in the Weatherby PA-08 thread.

Short synopsis: There was a 16 gauge express for sale in the EE that I purchased and it started a discussion in the 16 gauge models Remington introduced in 2002 (?) that got discontinued in 2006 (?) due to lacklustre sales.

I'll post photos and confirmed details of the one I picked up when it gets here, but it's an Express variant with black synthetic stocks and what was advertised as a 26" VR barrel threaded for (difficult to find) 16 gauge RemChokes. It has a J lock trigger plate, not sure if aluminum or plastic, I can't tell from the low-res photos from the seller.

So what versions were sold roughly 10 to 15 years ago?

-Clearly they sold a 28"VR Express model with synthetic stocks.
-They evidently also sold a youth model Express with a 23"VR barrel and a shorter buttstock.
-There was also a 26"VR and a 28"VR Wingmaster that shipped with 3 chokes (F,M,IC).

I did read one post where an owner claimed:

The newer 870's with Rem chokes have a 12 gauge barrel with a 16ga hole drilled in it. The newer barrels add extra weight.
Click to expand...

Any truth to this? Could be a blessing in disguise for a younger or slightly built shooter, if true. I found another post where it is claimed the 16g barrels were made to the same exterior dimensions as a 12g light contour version. I have a vintage (1950's) WM 870 in 16 and it's noticeably lighter than a comparable 12 gauge, but most 16g barrels were thin walled and no rib back then.

Also, would be nice to see photos of recently made 16's and any info about them would be cool. They seem to be a short-lived and uncommon 870 variant. Pics of any 16g 870 also welcome :)
 
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I would think an extra heavy barrel would make the gun pretty muzzle heavy. That might not be a bad thing (within reason) for a larger, stronger shooter, but I can't see it being particularly good if you were introducing a kid to shooting.
 
The 12 gauge blank with 16 gauge hole is true. It becomes heavy and noticeable in the 28" length. I have owned a Wing master 16 bore with a 26" barrel and while heavier than early produced guns (mine was of the latest batch run) it handled very well. I did have a 28" barrel on my Synthetic Express version and it was brutally muzzle heavy. Swapped the barrel for a 23" youth version and it handles great. The gun itself is the same size as a 12 gauge express. I must admit I appreciate the absolute lack of recoil with this gun with all loads including 1 1/4 oz. Federals. My gun sports a plastic trigger guard with the J Loc abomination. I leave it off and alone. No problems with it so far. Your score of a 26" barreled Express is very rare. All the recent batch had vent rib barrels and Rem Chokes. Wing master had three chokes and express and express youth had one in Modified. The Wing Master could be had with a 28" barrel also. Tru Lock makes aftermarket chokes of excellent quality. Nice thing about them is all 12 gauge 870 accessories work on the guns. I just put a real fancy nice walnut Wing Master stock set on mine. The highly figured walnut and the matte express finish look real good. I killed a decent honker with mine last fall with some hand loaded #4 steel. With Federal or Remington 16 gauge steel loads the gun will kill most ducks out to 40 yards. Inside that range ducks or geese are DEAD if you put the pattern on them. (head and neck on the honker) Mine weighs almost 8 pounds with full magazine and a sling. Not ideal for all day walking the uplands but no different than hunting with a 12 gauge express in the same circumstance and lot of guys do that. Congrats on your good fortune with that find.

Darryl
 
Well hopefully the seller was correct in saying the gun has a full in it. If it's modified I will need to order another choke - lol. We shall see what I end up using this gun for. I frankly have too many shotguns, but I didn't have a choke tubed 16 yet, so this will fill a hole and get used from time to time ;)

Can we see a picture of your express with WM wood?
 
Claven2 said:
Well hopefully the seller was correct in saying the gun has a full in it. If it's modified I will need to order another choke - lol. We shall see what I end up using this gun for. I frankly have too many shotguns, but I didn't have a choke tubed 16 yet, so this will fill a hole and get used from time to time ;)

Can we see a picture of your express with WM wood?
Click to expand...

The second coming will come faster than trying to get that old man to post a picture ;)

I can vouch that it's a handsome gun with the WM wood.

Cory
 
That was always the downfall to Remington's version of an 870 16 gauge. Simply a 12 gauge frame with a 16 bore barrel screwed on. To take a 12 gauge blank and bore it to 16 gauge specs would be simply ridiculous... Might as well shoot a 12 and take advantage of all less expensive the ammo selection.
 
Here it is.






Pics are not too bad for me. M12 shooter I get your disdain for a 16 on a 12 frame but I like the way the 16 on the 12 Remington 870 frame handles and that is a personal preference. Saying that you might as well shoot a 12 takes the fun out of it. Might as well hunt with a .30-06 instead of ??? any number of interesting calibres or gauges.

Darryl
 
This will answer most of your questions if you fix the link
It wasn't lack of demand that stopped production, many customers were looking for them but could not find any. Remington does this a lot running just limited numbers. The 3 1/2 wingmaster was another example
http://www. shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_rem_16_0507/

Cheers
 
Claven2 said:
Well when mine gets here I will measure and post differences to a normal contour 12g barrel for interest sake.
Click to expand...

It should be smaller but the new 16ga actually uses a 12ga light contour barrel so larger than the vintage 16ga ones in this makes sense. That is what you really have to compare it against and it should be the same OD etc as a 12ga LC
I am guessing but if that is 12ga wood on darryl's gun the forearm probally fit perfectly and never needed any filling around the barrel to take the play out vs putting it on a vintage 16ga gun
Cheers
 
M12shooter said:
That was always the downfall to Remington's version of an 870 16 gauge. Simply a 12 gauge frame with a 16 bore barrel screwed on. To take a 12 gauge blank and bore it to 16 gauge specs would be simply ridiculous... Might as well shoot a 12 and take advantage of all less expensive the ammo selection.
Click to expand...

But it was ok for winchester to do the same on the model 12 16ga ,20ga & 28ga, all the same receiver blank were they not . Not to mention they used two different frames on their 12ga at least remington used just one there Humm
The only downfall to the 16ga was it not being a requirement in skeet. That killed it regardless of frame make or model. Only reason the 28ga is still with us today also
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
It should be smaller but the new 16ga actually uses a 12ga light contour barrel so larger than the vintage 16ga ones in this makes sense. That is what you really have to compare it against and it should be the same OD etc as a 12ga LC
I am guessing but if that is 12ga wood on darryl's gun the forearm probally fit perfectly and never needed any filling around the barrel to take the play out vs putting it on a vintage 16ga gun
Cheers
Click to expand...

You are right Three Macs the barrel fit the fore arm perfectly. The only indication of my barrel being a "Light Contour" is a "LC" stamped on the barrel ring. Even with the IMP CYL Rem Choke screwed in there is a lot of meat in the muzzle wall. I did fit an early '60's barrel on this gun and the gap in the fore end was very noticeable. Like I said earlier I feel it is a plus for the gun to make use of 12 gauge accessories.

Darryl
 
madtrapper143 said:
Here it is.






Pics are not too bad for me. M12 shooter I get your disdain for a 16 on a 12 frame but I like the way the 16 on the 12 Remington 870 frame handles and that is a personal preference. Saying that you might as well shoot a 12 takes the fun out of it. Might as well hunt with a .30-06 instead of ??? any number of interesting calibres or gauges.

Darryl
Click to expand...

Gun looks great by the way. If I were to improve upon it, it would be to suggest getting a pachmayr decelerator pad professionally fitted instead of that older ventilated number.

Can't say I ever liked white lines.
 
3macs1 said:
But it was ok for winchester to do the same on the model 12 16ga ,20ga & 28ga, all the same receiver blank were they not . Not to mention they used two different frames on their 12ga at least remington used just one there Humm
The only downfall to the 16ga was it not being a requirement in skeet. That killed it regardless of frame make or model. Only reason the 28ga is still with us today also
Cheers
Click to expand...

The Winchester Model 1912 began life in 1912 in 20 ga only. . Not until 1914 was the 12 ga available and built on a larger frame. . Also in 1914, the 16 gauge became available built on the 20 gauge frame. . The slogan of the day was . . "Carries like a 20 ga but shoots like a 12 ga" . . The 28 ga was not offered until 1937 and built on the 20 ga frame. . In 1935 the Model 12 Duck Gun was offered in 12 ga, with 3" chambers, and this was a heavier built 12 ga all the way round; frame, action, barrel and buttstock.
 
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madtrapper143 said:
You are right Three Macs the barrel fit the fore arm perfectly. The only indication of my barrel being a "Light Contour" is a "LC" stamped on the barrel ring. Even with the IMP CYL Rem Choke screwed in there is a lot of meat in the muzzle wall. I did fit an early '60's barrel on this gun and the gap in the fore end was very noticeable. Like I said earlier I feel it is a plus for the gun to make use of 12 gauge accessories.

Darryl
Click to expand...

I agree. I ended up taking the forearm off one of mine and filling it with plastic wood since it was terrible. So hard to find nice clean true 16ga wood vs 12ga. I even got a set of cool blue I think they call it almost done for one. Member here roughed them out for me, just have to find the time to finish it
Cheers
 
The late production 16 Wing master I had was plagued with problems. It went back for warranty work 3 times before I gave up on it. I have owned 3 Express models and none of them had any problems what so ever. These were late production 16 bores as well. First time sent back the extractor was not cut properly for 16 gauge cartridges, they often would be left in the chamber as the extractor would slide off the case head. (case was not stuck, you could shake it out) Second time it went back the J lock safety would sometimes work its way into a half #### position causing issues ie: fail to fire. The third and last time it went back the cartridge stop would let in two cartridges. Found that out on a South Dakota pheasant hunt.:mad: It was traded soon after that . I feel the extractor and the shell stop issues were due to poorly modified 12 gauge parts in a 16 gauge gun. As for the J lock that was just a piece of crap design from the get go. Funny my current Express has a J lock and it has been fine. I don't use it at all but it functions like it should. Another thing I like about my current gun is that it is equipped with the "Flexi Tab" system to prevent a cartridge from getting stuck under the carrier.

Darryl
 
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