- Location
- Jameson, SK
So IT IS part of the magic gun show etiquette book!!!! I knew it.
Another GREAT way to encourage more involvement in our sport.
Gun Show Ethics - What Would You Do?
- Thread starter Brookwood
- Start date
So IT IS part of the magic gun show etiquette book!!!! I knew it.
Another GREAT way to encourage more involvement in our sport.
Perhaps this sort of a thing is why I avoid Gun Shows, the last several have left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
There are a few good vendors; but the ' Rip-off artist's ' definitely PO me. I can abide with a mark-up, a man's got to eat. But when it veers into blatant rip-off territory ( IMO of course ) at a public event, I'll speak up. If it was an acquaintance of mine getting fleeced, I'd speak up, so why are 'Friends I haven't made yet' fair game?
The 'Mark' can choose to disregard me if they feel so inclined. And if the vendor makes a POOH face; too bad, you came to the dance...doesn't mean you get to lead all the time.
But then again...I avoid gunshows for the most part. Maybe this is why.
There are a few good vendors; but the ' Rip-off artist's ' definitely PO me. I can abide with a mark-up, a man's got to eat. But when it veers into blatant rip-off territory ( IMO of course ) at a public event, I'll speak up. If it was an acquaintance of mine getting fleeced, I'd speak up, so why are 'Friends I haven't made yet' fair game?
The 'Mark' can choose to disregard me if they feel so inclined. And if the vendor makes a POOH face; too bad, you came to the dance...doesn't mean you get to lead all the time.
But then again...I avoid gunshows for the most part. Maybe this is why.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Usually the old saying "free, white and over 21" applies (ie. Buyer is old enough to be responsible for his own actions and research).
However, from your description the seller has apparently crossed the line between "sales pitch" and "fraud".
In my experience speaking to the vendor and the show organizers is a wise move in the event of perceived dishonesty.
A third (complicating) issue is that quite often in my experience a "disapproving" party is wrong...I see it all the time on the forums where someone with limited knowledge (usually what they read in a book or elsewhere on-line) expounds incorrect information either for, or against the provenance of a particular item.
I've also seen an "expert" who was merely trying to have the buyer send the "incorrect" gun back and obtain the contact info of the seller so that he could buy the "incorrect" firearm from the original vendor.
Now that guy is pond scum in my opinion.
However, from your description the seller has apparently crossed the line between "sales pitch" and "fraud".
In my experience speaking to the vendor and the show organizers is a wise move in the event of perceived dishonesty.
A third (complicating) issue is that quite often in my experience a "disapproving" party is wrong...I see it all the time on the forums where someone with limited knowledge (usually what they read in a book or elsewhere on-line) expounds incorrect information either for, or against the provenance of a particular item.
I've also seen an "expert" who was merely trying to have the buyer send the "incorrect" gun back and obtain the contact info of the seller so that he could buy the "incorrect" firearm from the original vendor.
Now that guy is pond scum in my opinion.
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It's proper etiquette everywhere not just gun shows. MYOFB.
But who knew there were so many Social Justice Warrior Super Heroes patrolling guns shows ready to right every wrong, protect the innocent and defend the hapless know-nothings?
Put on your cape and tights for the next show so vendors know who to ask for permission on the prices they should change.
walleyed99
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- I'm not telling, Sask
Yup, definitely Bruno. He was one row from the back at the Saskatoon gunshow, and man was he smiling B. S. I stood around looking over his crap for a bit. Checked out his Springfields he had marked on the table (Norc's). And listened to him pitch the Yugo sniper, and a sniper repro mosin. The guy is a total clown, after about 5-10 minutes I had to walk away.
Ha, this is funny. I guess some people don't care about the truth. I don't care if a dealer over charges and someone gets screwed, but if someone is making untrue claims about a rifle I have every right to question him on it. Doesn't mean I'll flat out call him a liar, but be sure that if I know he's lying I'll be asking him to support his claims. Maybe it's not my business, but who the hell has the right to lie and cheat?
Cool. Hopefully I can sell you something one day.
- Location
- pallisers triangle
I have seen it all to , worked the shows many years. some guys simply don't care, and get that rep. I think the best method would have been to get close there, and interrupt politely, and ask " what holds the scope on?" then "ooooohhhhhhh its not a real sniper sorry I thought it was real, sorry"
I totally disagree, everybody in any hobby is, or was new to the game at one point. The buyer perhaps thought he was doing his research and did not expect to be lied to. I would have tried to catch the buyers attention discreetly and give them some info on the gun.
Buy the gun, and not the story. The MILSURP sector is ripe for embelishment and story telling. People should arm themselves with knowledge before they go putting serious money down for things.
It's fun to speculate that a particular No4 might have been carried ashore on Juno Beach, but OTOH it might have seen even harder service training recruits in Camp Shilo. There were millions of copies made and it's next to impossible to establish the provenance of a particular piece.
One that gets up my nose, and I've seen it a few times, is labelling a semi-sporterized M 1917 Enfield as a "possible sniper".
It's fun to speculate that a particular No4 might have been carried ashore on Juno Beach, but OTOH it might have seen even harder service training recruits in Camp Shilo. There were millions of copies made and it's next to impossible to establish the provenance of a particular piece.
One that gets up my nose, and I've seen it a few times, is labelling a semi-sporterized M 1917 Enfield as a "possible sniper".
Trimmer 905
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
LOL That's when I say "I might possibly buy this possible sniper with possible money." I've only been to 3 or 4 gun shows,but,I always make sure my BS boots are laced up all the way to the top. It reminds of going to Scarborough and pickering Flea Markets. The BS can't get much deeper than that.
Op; excellent subject that goes well beyond a gun show really, I've found the responses very interesting and telling on both ends of the spectrum thus far...thank you.
Information is power. As people, we exercise this fact every day of our lives almost unconsciously. However, every now and again we witness something that has us check our moral direction. Ask yourself; when you were younger, did you not see one of your buddies about to engage in something that was clearly not going to end well? Did you interrupt/intervene...or, did you pop corn, take a seat, and await the spectacle to unfold for the sheer entertainment factor?
In the situation the OP witnessed, I think it would be pertinent to prove the suspicion that the vendor is deliberately misleading a potential buyer (Perhaps the vendor is misinformed himself to give him the benefit of the doubt.). A few pointed questions would clear the field..."Rarest of the rare, how so? I thought the Russians made 100,000's of these under extreme war time conditions?" or a simple question on mismatched parts/ referb stamps will resolve the question. Then; armed with verified information, you have to ask yourself do you share the truth of the matter with the potential young customer? Would it even be appreciated? The young couple may misinterpret your actions as trying to undermine their "find/purchase" and would therefore treat your "help" as intrusive. And; if they do, at what cost to yourself could there be to point them to the light in any regard? Walking away from a situation knowing you did the right thing can be very self satisfying, (I'm not even going to address the ridiculous social justice warrior nonsense) in the alternative, rolling around in a parking lot with a vendor or the male aspect of the young couple is a real and unintended consequence for "getting involved"...I suppose you should be prepared to deal with any and all outcomes whether you become involved or not.
In short, I think I know what I would do. I believe I'm a "moral" person, but I'm no different than the next guy when I say I'm complicated. On the turn of a particular, my actions would also most likely "turn".
Information is power. As people, we exercise this fact every day of our lives almost unconsciously. However, every now and again we witness something that has us check our moral direction. Ask yourself; when you were younger, did you not see one of your buddies about to engage in something that was clearly not going to end well? Did you interrupt/intervene...or, did you pop corn, take a seat, and await the spectacle to unfold for the sheer entertainment factor?
In the situation the OP witnessed, I think it would be pertinent to prove the suspicion that the vendor is deliberately misleading a potential buyer (Perhaps the vendor is misinformed himself to give him the benefit of the doubt.
). A few pointed questions would clear the field..."Rarest of the rare, how so? I thought the Russians made 100,000's of these under extreme war time conditions?" or a simple question on mismatched parts/ referb stamps will resolve the question. Then; armed with verified information, you have to ask yourself do you share the truth of the matter with the potential young customer? Would it even be appreciated? The young couple may misinterpret your actions as trying to undermine their "find/purchase" and would therefore treat your "help" as intrusive. And; if they do, at what cost to yourself could there be to point them to the light in any regard? Walking away from a situation knowing you did the right thing can be very self satisfying, (I'm not even going to address the ridiculous social justice warrior nonsense) in the alternative, rolling around in a parking lot with a vendor or the male aspect of the young couple is a real and unintended consequence for "getting involved"...I suppose you should be prepared to deal with any and all outcomes whether you become involved or not. In short, I think I know what I would do. I believe I'm a "moral" person, but I'm no different than the next guy when I say I'm complicated. On the turn of a particular, my actions would also most likely "turn".
Exactly! No one deserves to be fleeced like that and at the same time no need to make a big scene.
I have actually had something similar happen to me...
It's the same story every where sellers all lie or forget to mention issues, and exaggerate the already half truths, buyer beware is not an old saying for no reason, the only honest thing about someone who sells for a living is they will all do what ever they need to, to sell what ever it is
- Location
- Jameson, SK
It's proper etiquette everywhere not just gun shows. MYOFB.
But who knew there were so many Social Justice Warrior Super Heroes patrolling guns shows ready to right every wrong, protect the innocent and defend the hapless know-nothings?
Put on your cape and tights for the next show so vendors know who to ask for permission on the prices they should change.
Ya know clay - you don't like me, and I don't like you - at least in our online forms.
How about we just agree to not waste our time insulting each other???
Deal?
Deal.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Do any of the rest of you DECENT people have tights??
Maybe they match mine.
Maybe they match mine.
Bad men triumph when good men do nothing.
Nobody "deserves" to get ripped off. This is not a situation where someone slightly over pays for something, it's blatant fraud.
How on earth does it serve the greater good of the gun owning community to allow scammers to operate with impunity?
Nobody "deserves" to get ripped off. This is not a situation where someone slightly over pays for something, it's blatant fraud.
How on earth does it serve the greater good of the gun owning community to allow scammers to operate with impunity?
- Location
- Jameson, SK
It's in the unwritten code book of gun shows, don't you know????
