Gun Show Ethics - What Would You Do?
- Thread starter Brookwood
- Start date
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Some members would be good candidate for the "who not to pull out of the ditch in the winter" thread too........
I'll do too cold in my tights to get out of my super hero car any way.....
I'll do too cold in my tights to get out of my super hero car any way.....
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Do I take this to mean that you are my protagonist? My anti-hero? My Nemesis? A Villain?
What costume do you wear?? Black I'm sure.....something ominous.
Considering that "Alien vs. Predator" made it to theaters, I'd guess that "Social Justice Warrior vs. User Guy" would draw in at least a few crowds, no??
C'mon, we are talking about money spent on hobby, not about taking away bread from orphans. Young guy that has extra $1k burning the pocket? Either he wants to pay $1k for the lesson or he is willing to learn in traditional way by reading and asking.
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I was at the Calgary gun show and I believe I know which dealer was selling the rifles.
I work for a firearms business and I personally trade/collect milsup rifles - I also had tables for my employer at the Calgary and Edmonton Shows.
At the Edmonton Show there were 2x SVT's - they both sold for $500 and $550 respectively. I asked why they were listed so high and the dealers stated that they saw rifles 'sold' on Marstar's website for $500+, so they thought $500+ was the going rate. Prior to the show, I pointed out that Lever has the rifles for less, but that no other business has a significant stock of rifles and that they may realize those higher values - at this show both rifles sold for full asking price.
In regards to the $600 rifles at the Calgary show. Two were sold at that price - at least 1x SVT was an uncommon Izzy - which did sell at Marstar for the $500+ prices when Lever had the rifles for only $300. When these rifles were first imported 5-7x years ago the initial asking price was $550 and most people agree that the SVT rifles have been undervalued over the last few years.
Milsups are always difficult to price - as there are fair values and realized valued and when high numbers get realized you see artificial inflation. Finn Mosin Nagants are a perfect example. Many were had for $50-70 years ago and now sell for $600+, are these prices realistic or fair? That is for the market to decide.
I personally like seeing realistic prices and hate artificial inflation - that doesn't help dealers or collectors.
I work for a firearms business and I personally trade/collect milsup rifles - I also had tables for my employer at the Calgary and Edmonton Shows.
At the Edmonton Show there were 2x SVT's - they both sold for $500 and $550 respectively. I asked why they were listed so high and the dealers stated that they saw rifles 'sold' on Marstar's website for $500+, so they thought $500+ was the going rate. Prior to the show, I pointed out that Lever has the rifles for less, but that no other business has a significant stock of rifles and that they may realize those higher values - at this show both rifles sold for full asking price.
In regards to the $600 rifles at the Calgary show. Two were sold at that price - at least 1x SVT was an uncommon Izzy - which did sell at Marstar for the $500+ prices when Lever had the rifles for only $300. When these rifles were first imported 5-7x years ago the initial asking price was $550 and most people agree that the SVT rifles have been undervalued over the last few years.
Milsups are always difficult to price - as there are fair values and realized valued and when high numbers get realized you see artificial inflation. Finn Mosin Nagants are a perfect example. Many were had for $50-70 years ago and now sell for $600+, are these prices realistic or fair? That is for the market to decide.
I personally like seeing realistic prices and hate artificial inflation - that doesn't help dealers or collectors.
By the way - 4x SVTs sold at our table. $400, $400, $450 and $800 for a SA Finn Field sniper which was Russian Re-arsenaled.
Lever does have SVTs for less but hand select is $400 + Shipping and Tax. There is no shipping at Gun Shows, the rifles are hand select and GST is absorbed by the business.
Lever does have SVTs for less but hand select is $400 + Shipping and Tax. There is no shipping at Gun Shows, the rifles are hand select and GST is absorbed by the business.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Do you have pictures? That rifle had to have both SA and one of Soviet refurbishing marks to be re-capture.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
I'm pretty sure the OP was talking about a vendor at a recent Sask show, yes?
My goal of starting this thread was to get opinions from the community about what to do when you see someone being taken advantage of at a sale, not spark controversy by targeting a specific vendor and accusing them on a public forum as being dishonest. I could have been a jerk and said 'so and so at table X at the ________ show', but that is not appropriate in this case and it was not my point so I left out details that were not essential to the story. I wrestled with whether or not to post this incident on the forum because the sale was between those two individuals and I had nothing to do with it what so ever, aside from walking by. I have no vested interest either in selling firearms that would compete with the vendor, the described vendor's bottom line or the people who were interested in buying it. But this one really bugged me, so I did. And so far, based on the responses, I'm glad I did.
That being said I do not want to go into any more specifics than I already wrote, but no, it was not a Sask. show.
Thanks again for everyone's comments.
Brookwood
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
^^^ This is exactly what I've done, and then proceeded to go through all the ways to identify relevant parts as reproduction/non-matching. Some of the retailers at the shows don't like me much, but they aren't regulars at the shows as the organizers tend to weed out bad apples.
Sales pitches are one thing, but straight up fraud is another...
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Please don't be deterred from doing the right thing.....
Scary, isn't it, the crap you see and hear at gun shows? 
I try to take care and disclose any negative things about a gun, as well as tout the good points. It seems that people usually appreciate being told of any thing that is not proper or functioning properly. I recently sold a Springfield pump shotgun that got sticky after about three rounds. I had that right on the label, along with a low price. A fellow came along, bought it after some discussion about the "sticky" problem. A few days later, he phoned to say he had it fixed.
All the "sniper" hogwash makes my head spin. The whole Allied force must have been equipped with sniper rifles! Jungle Carbines are another source for pure, unadulterated BS. I helped a fellow who was nearly blind at the Saskatoon gun show to purchase a nice JC with a bayonet from another vendor, all for a decent price. The vendor I was helping had one, but it was bubba'd somewhat. The poor guy was ecstatic when he purchased it!
I hope all the BS spreading vendors are reading this thread, although a lot of them don't even have a computer of any sort.
I try to take care and disclose any negative things about a gun, as well as tout the good points. It seems that people usually appreciate being told of any thing that is not proper or functioning properly. I recently sold a Springfield pump shotgun that got sticky after about three rounds. I had that right on the label, along with a low price. A fellow came along, bought it after some discussion about the "sticky" problem. A few days later, he phoned to say he had it fixed.
All the "sniper" hogwash makes my head spin. The whole Allied force must have been equipped with sniper rifles! Jungle Carbines are another source for pure, unadulterated BS. I helped a fellow who was nearly blind at the Saskatoon gun show to purchase a nice JC with a bayonet from another vendor, all for a decent price. The vendor I was helping had one, but it was bubba'd somewhat. The poor guy was ecstatic when he purchased it!
I hope all the BS spreading vendors are reading this thread, although a lot of them don't even have a computer of any sort.
Exactly, and one of the ways of doing research is by asking questions of those who presumably would know a thing or two...like vendors at a trade show maybe.
That's when you can just MYOB ...
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Well said.
There is a tactful way to strike up a conversation with a the victim/buyer before they get fleeced.
Let them know the facts or discrepancies, and they can proceed to buy/not buy.....or put off a purchase until they educate themselves.
It's not hard to know what the 'right thing to do' is.
I've spent a fair amount of time trying to save people from making bad life choices, especially financial ones. Quite often it blows back in your face as folks seem determined to make their own choices for better or for worse.
I've been in the MILSURP hobby for a long time and have acquired quite a bit of knowledge on specific firearms and their historical context. I'm always happy to offer my opinion on a topic or a specific firearm at a gunshow if asked, but I wouldn't try to play the white knight by patrolling the aisles and flagging various vendors as charlatans or folks who seem to be playing fast and loose with the truth. Its also good not to play an expert when you really aren't.
Knowledge is power so it's worth studying up on just what your interests are and what you might be getting yourself into before making a rash purchase at a gunshow. This applies to a lot of decisions in life, not just buying guns. Again, buy the gun and not the story that comes with it. As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are easily parted".
I've been in the MILSURP hobby for a long time and have acquired quite a bit of knowledge on specific firearms and their historical context. I'm always happy to offer my opinion on a topic or a specific firearm at a gunshow if asked, but I wouldn't try to play the white knight by patrolling the aisles and flagging various vendors as charlatans or folks who seem to be playing fast and loose with the truth. Its also good not to play an expert when you really aren't.
Knowledge is power so it's worth studying up on just what your interests are and what you might be getting yourself into before making a rash purchase at a gunshow. This applies to a lot of decisions in life, not just buying guns. Again, buy the gun and not the story that comes with it. As the old saying goes, "a fool and his money are easily parted".
I know that I would certainly appreciate a subtle elbow to the ribs and a whispered "bad deal" in my ear.
Golden rule applies.
Hucksters should expect no respect if they are misrepresenting the provenance of something - that's fraud.
And why should "Google" be your ONLY friend? How did folks do it before google?
This is not a grey area like the thread about price too high / too low what would you do.
Golden rule applies.
Hucksters should expect no respect if they are misrepresenting the provenance of something - that's fraud.
And why should "Google" be your ONLY friend? How did folks do it before google?
This is not a grey area like the thread about price too high / too low what would you do.
