.308 Load Development Story from a Rookie, for Rookies

Gunneegoogoo

Gunneegoogoo

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Jameson, SK
As some of you know I've been spouting off about my new F-TR rifle. This is my first truly brand new precision rifle, so I'm really starting from scratch. I've read like crazy, and I've reloaded for other rifles before. I thought I'd document what I've done so that anyone in the same situation could take or leave my successes and mistakes. This is meant to be helpful. I fully acknowledge I'm likely making some mistakes. I hope this is a discussion, not a pissing match - PLEASE. I welcome all questions and CONSTRUCTIVE comments and suggestions.

When I learn things I find the best way to test what I think I now know is to pass it on. I'm not doing this to hear my own voice (I hear that all day already), I'm really trying to be helpful and reinforce what I think I know......

Here goes.....
 
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Here's what I'm working with, and why I went with it:

Rifle and Optic:

Kelbly Panda single shot .308 action in an MCRS FTR stock, 30" barrel, smith'd by Henry Rempel - bought this because it was available, is a GREAT build, and was GREAT value. The only thing I'd change is the stock color!! Big thanks to Jefferson.

Generation 2 (post 2014) NF 15-55 comp scope with FCR reticle, living in ATRS medium rings - again, available (saved some $ and the tax on the EE - big thanks to RedRams), and awesome for F-class. I love the ATRS rings, becoming a big fan of the single screw setup.

MPOD bipod - light, simple, great value.

My reloading gear is:

Lee turret press - was my "starter kit" and seems to be working well
RCBS Chargemaster - "hacked"
Redding FL bushing die with carbide button kit - as suggested by my LR mentor
Forster Micro Seater - my choice over the redding based on ergonomics. I hope that I don't regret it. My initial runout testing isn't looking good relative to my Redding seater.....
Hornady decapping die - to limit wear on my FL Redding
21st century flashhole uniformer - LOVE the 21st century stuff. Well thought out and well made.
21st century priming tool - worth the $ if you can afford it. WAY more comfortable than a RCBS or Lee
21st century turning lathe and carbide expander dies
21st century Primer pocket uniformer
Sinclair Neck Thickness Gauge - absolute best value as far as I know. Mitutoyo thickness gauges are a lot more $$......
Larry Willis shoulder comparator - bought it about 8 months ago,
Sinclair Ogive Comparator for Calipers - seemed the best value and does the job
Mitutoyo Calipers - the best, along with Starrett
Sinclair Runout Gauge - seemed like good value
Lyman prep center


Reloading Consumables:

Lapua brass - regular .308 (not small palma flashholes) - I only buy Lapua Brass, for consistency, except for my .300WSM cause they don't make it.
Federal 210 Match Primers - set out looking for the regular ones, and stumbled across these.
Varget - as suggested by the seller of the rifle (lots of F class experience)
Berger 185 Juggernauts - same reason as the Varget
 
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Evening 1 - setting up the scope..... and groping the new rifle.....

FAIL #1:

RedRams sold me his high NF rings with a built in level with the 55x comp. I have a thing against high rings. It's my own issue, I know, but I like the bell hugging the barrel, and I like my cheek locked tight on the cheekrest. Fortuitously I found a low set of ATRS 30mm rings on the EE, so I ran the math and it looked like it'd JUST fit. The bell sat beautifully just above the barrel, BUUUUUTTTT the damn bolt handle rubbed on the zoom ring of the scope!!!! Baaaaahhhh!!!!! I'm gonna email Kelbly and suggest a 10degree bend on the handle, cause that's all it would've taken.

So, off the to ATRS website to order medium rings....and one of their new slings, while I'm at it!!! They'll be here today.

ps - NF high 30mm rings with bubble level for sale...... I'll put them on the EE soon.
 
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Evening #2 - Making the new baby it's first meals

All I did to the brand new Lapua brass was uniform the primer holes. I hummed and hawed about neck turning it up front, but I decided to fire-form it first, and then do the full tumble, trim, turn, anneal, etc.....

I chose to start at 42gr of varget based on Jefferson's advice. I made myself 10 rounds at 42grains for zeroing and a bit of break in, and then 5 each at 42.2, 42.4, 42.6, 42.8, 43.0, 43.2, 43.4. I stopped at 43.4 as 43.6 is listed as max, and I don't want to have to dismantle rounds. If there's no pressure signs I'll scoot to the basement and load up 43.6 and 43.8, or higher if it works.

I did some QC by putting the Chargemaster throws on my GemPro. The Chargemaster is very accurate, it's impressive.

I am going to do 300 yard testing to look for vertical dispersion as per Mystic Jerry's article. He does 2 shots, but I can't get the voices in my head to stop saying "2 shots won't show a pattern", so I'm going to do my own thing. I know, I know - you can say "I told you so" later..... I wanna see those horizontal footballs form!!!!

I had to pick a depth to lands. I used the jiffy marker method. Took me about 20 tries, and finally settled on 2.115" from case base to ogive, and chose to use 2.110" as my seating depth for this first set of loads.

When seating, I sure could notice the differences in neck tension from one case to the next, even with the old trusty Lee press...

This was the first time I used my Ogive comparator on my calipers to set seating depth as Base To Ogive Length rather than using Combined OverAll Length. I did not sort my bullets beforehand, but I sure as hell will be from now on. As I was seating I found some that were clearly .015 to .020 different than others based on the seating error. Lesson learned.

At the end of the evening (about 02:00), after using the old kinetic puller as quietly as possible to re-seat about 8 of them, i had 45 nicely loaded rounds. I thought I'd run some of them through my run-out gauge, and I'm not too happy. A lot of them have up to .004 of runout, whereas my 6.5 loads seated with my Redding seater are almost all under .001. Will it matter?? I dunno. Maybe someone more experienced can comment??

Gave the barrel a quick swab and light oil, lightly oiled the bolt and shut'erdown for the eve.....
 
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Morning #3

I have the day off work. I'm all ready to go. The wind is 30+steady and gusting to 50-60.

I was hoping to take her to Nokomis tomorrow to meet everyone, so I wanted a load ready to do...... Maybe I'll take the 6.5.....

F.
 
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GGG, glad you are off to the races with the FTR rifle... just a note that many FTR competitors WANT their scope elevated - easier on the neck.

AND light cheek contact on the comb... some are even going to NO cheek pressure.

It is all about influencing the rifle as little as possible. I know the rifle will shoot very well and I am sure you will find a suitable load very quickly - there is a very nice node in the 2700fps range.

Enjoy...

Jerry

PS why we outside neck turn after forming... much better control of neck tension. The brass out of the box has WAAAYYYY too much neck tension. That will go away with forming and turning. Also, confirm what is the actual neck diameter of the Chamber. Some reamers are closer to SAAMI and overly thick necks will lead to problems.

4 thou runout will not affect the end result... the Juggernaut (or OTM) is very tolerant of this.... but it is good to test for yourself.
 
Mystic Precision said:
GGG, glad you are off to the races with the FTR rifle... just a note that many FTR competitors WANT their scope elevated - easier on the neck.

AND light cheek contact on the comb... some are even going to NO cheek pressure.

It is all about influencing the rifle as little as possible. I know the rifle will shoot very well and I am sure you will find a suitable load very quickly - there is a very nice node in the 2700fps range.

Enjoy...

Jerry

PS why we outside neck turn after forming... much better control of neck tension. The brass out of the box has WAAAYYYY too much neck tension. That will go away with forming and turning. Also, confirm what is the actual neck diameter of the Chamber. Some reamers are closer to SAAMI and overly thick necks will lead to problems.

4 thou runout will not affect the end result... the Juggernaut (or OTM) is very tolerant of this.... but it is good to test for yourself.
Click to expand...

It's a "no turn neck" chamber - I wanna say .342 - I'll go check.

Maybe I'll Keep the rings then, until I decide what works for me...???

I really noticed the neck tension when seating last night. Hugely different feel from one to the next.

A hydro seater press is on my radar....with a Wilson/Sinclair micro seater die

Pray for light winds!!!
 
With proper neck prep and annealing, seating pressure becomes very consistent and you can feel a problem. I understand the point of a hydro press but I feel it is better to do the work properly up front then chase a problem in the final stage.

Forster or Redding seaters will do all that you need ... once the neck prep is done properly.

Even if you have a "no turn" chamber, you will need to outside neck turn. There is usually too much variance in the brass necks and that will change as you fire the brass.

But you will understand once you get the case through a few firing cycles. For now, just get out and fireform the case... even with high winds, it will be linear. So your windage zero is 3 ft off target... the first go round is to build a base of info on the "goal posts" of your rifle AND to form that brass.

The current state of brass will be different then all the other shots you take with that case so just go form some brass.... and learn how to drive the rifle.

Jerry
 
Just thinking out loud but since you loaded virgin brass thats been flopping around in a box shipped from another continent that has very high neck tension (my Lapua .308 was the same, VERY tight necks) me think you'll see a nice improvement once they've been fire formed in a duesy rifle and sized in quality dies.
 
MP is correct in the virgin Lapua brass has too much neck tension. The 308s were tight but the 260Rem the bullet wouldn't seat using Wilson die and mini arbor. Inside chamber, buff, run it through Lee collet die without collet neck sizing, worked great.
 
Agree. After these 50 get there first firing I'll get em tuned up.

Can anyone comment on how to pick. Neck thickness when your a chamber doesn't demand a certain one??

Mine is .342 - I checked.
 
You have great components in your rifle as well your reloading equipment. bullets good but I see the 200 gr Bergers as better choice. I have seen them both on range and have shot both.my buddy Liberty shot a 75 with lots of vBulls at 900 m at Canadian Nationals last year beating every shooter on range and thats including F/O and he was shooting 200 gr Bergers/Palma brass neck turned brass
You will shoot smaller groups using Lapua Palma brass ( small primer pocket)
Henry Remple is as about as good as it gets for putting everything together If you can get a Remple front bi-pod do it if you can make weight no front rest is better.in my opinion.
What Jerry said about turning necks do it most important thing to do to your brass !!!
Also learn to shoot free hold never mind the hard hold, some have mastered the hard hold but not many.
7 to 9 oz Trigger pull seems what a lot of Fclass shooters use, I have seen to many 2 oz triggers giving big problems.
Get a Edgewood rear bag, tracking of rifle is very very important.

And last and most important "bar none" in reloading for long range is buy A Hoover Bullet pointing system.

lets all know how it shoots/photos of targets

Cheers & Good luck
Manitou
 
Thank you.

I've been wondering about pointing, or maybe Chinchaga bullets?? I have meplat trimmers en route.

I need to make contact with Mr. Remple. He's so highly regarded, I'm very happy to have a rifle by him.

I do have a 2oz trigger. What is the problem with them?? Too touchy??

I am under weight, about 16.5 I think. In pretty happy with my MPOD, but ya never know.....

It's very cool that f-class is a very Canadian game, and that so much of it comes from right here at home.

Chat soon.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
Agree. After these 50 get there first firing I'll get em tuned up.

Can anyone comment on how to pick. Neck thickness when your a chamber doesn't demand a certain one??

Mine is .342 - I checked.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter about the chamber as long as there is plenty of room... What you need to figure out is the thickness that works best for the brass ALLOY and annealing process you do.

I can suggest 12 thou as a good starting point (13 thou as a max.. some have gone thinner). I know you are prepared to anneal and do so every 3 to 4 firings or sooner if the brass indicates so.

There is where testing is your friend. If you have a question, test it so you know what works in YOUR system. There are so many subtle differences in our rifles that what any competitor helping you can do is point in the general direction.

The amount of tweaks we do are many and very small. The average hunting/tactical type rifle isn't going to see nor care about the incremental gains we seek. But when the goal is that 5" circle at 900m, EVERYTHING matters. Yes, competitors in F Class fully expect to drive a bunch of rds through that circle even in windy conditions (at least, that is the plan :d )

many of us have rifles that are fed different diets even though they are very similar in spec... Why? gave up worrying about it a long time ago.

in FTR today, all the bullets from 185 and up have done well so it really boils down to your barrel, your shoulder, your wallet and how much you are willing to work to find THE combination for you.

I just found my set up for the Team trial load... no where near the same as the "goto" receipe. That combo didn't work for me which is really bizarre but hey, feed the barrel what it likes and enjoy....

Jerry
 
Hey guys,

Anyone worried about my powder charges??

My berger Manual just arrived and it says max 41.6 of varget for the 185 Jugg, but it also says that max for the 6.5x47 is 35.8 and my load is 37.5 with no troubles....
 
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