Canadian Ranger 303's

wayupnorth

wayupnorth

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im not in the know about Lee Enfields but i do have a one that was handed down years ago and i recall looking into the stamps at one time.

then last weekend while out with the Rangers i was sitting looking at my 303 that was issued to me and i realized that my gun is not littered with proof stamps like my personal one is.

i found this strange, i thought all Lee Enfields where proof stamped from which plant made them?

i was chatting with a Warrant officer about it and he said he thought the guns where made in Britain and had been destined for Pakistan at one time but then came over to Canada instead. I ended up hearing that story a couple of times over the weekend.

anyone have any info on this?
just one of those questions that is nagging away in the back of my head.

ill try to get a pic of it compared to my personal one tonight if i remember to show the lack of proof stamps.

oh, the gun is a Mk4 no2 and i believe there is a (F) after that.
 
No.4Mk2(F) means it was made at Royal Ordnance Factory Fazackerley. It may be from a production batch that was intended for Pakistan but obviously it didn't end up there. When Britain stopped making Lee Enfields they sold the tooling from that factory and the technical data to Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF). Many No.4Mk.1 and No.4Mk.1* rifles were modified by ROF (F) during FTR to have their triggers hung like the No.4Mk.2 design and redesignated No.4Mk.1/2 or No.4Mk1/3 but only ROF(F) and POF made new No.4Mk.2 rifles.

The U.K. continued National Service (conscription) after WWII into the early 1960s and their military establishment and contingency defence plans included large numbers of ex-National Service soldiers being mobilized if needed. So many of them would have been trained on the Lee Enfield No.4 that large war reserve stocks were held and new rifles were manufactured and put in storage even though the type was being replaced in regular service by the Self Loading Rifle (FN FAL). Eventually these were sold off surplus and Canada would have acquired some to supply the Rangers because Long Branch had stopped making them.
 
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Fazakerley had all sorts of contracts for the Mk2s. Some markings may have been placed on the rifle when it was sold out of service. However, factory proof and inspection marks should be present regardless.
 
In the late 1970s we still had substantial (tens of thousands) of No4 rifles in reserve stocks. I remember going thru a staff check bean counting drill on these during one of the old WINTEX CPXs.
 
LongBranch made the bulk of the no4mk1 and no4mk1* rifles that were initially issued to the Rangers. As stocks started running out in the late 90s, DND bought a fair number of no4mk2s from UK stocks. I believe these were the so-called "Irish contract" type rifles of 1950s production. I was told of a further purchase of Pakistan or Indian produced rifles in the 2005-2010 time period of a fewl thousand or more.

The Canadian supply system did not seem to differentiate between the no4mk1 and no4mk1*, or no4mk2 rifles, nor do I see specific parts listed for the no4mk2 in Cdn service.
 
Old Albertan said:
Fazakerley had all sorts of contracts for the Mk2s. Some markings may have been placed on the rifle when it was sold out of service. However, factory proof and inspection marks should be present regardless.
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Indeed. If Europe is known for anything its a religious requirement for proof marks on any rifle, be it civilian or military. I'd love to know what happened with OP's rifle.
 
sorry, work got super busy.

i go on days off tomorrow and im gonna strip that gun down and look to see if any proofs are under the wood anywhere.
ill put up some pics after my treasure hunt is done!

also, from what i saw when we where out last with the Rangers there was a bunch of different Lee Enfields used by the dozen guys i was with.
obviously different models and some had obviously seen service or training rifles - others where almost new condition, so definitely a vast spectrum of rifles.

as the service life of these guns in the Rangers draws closer to being done its interesting to maybe know some of the lineage of them.
 
What will become of these ranger rifles after the changeover to the new rifles? How likely is it that the fears of trade-in followed by destruction will come true?

It would be great to be able to buy one of the few that is in "almost new" condition as mentioned by wayupnorth. What are the chances of that happening?
 
Robert Nicholson said:
It would be great to be able to buy one of the few that is in "almost new" condition as mentioned by wayupnorth. What are the chances of that happening?
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I wouldn't hold you breath. Perhaps they will be kept in reserve for the Rangers, but undoubtedly, with this Govn't having the say-so; chop-saw + smelter.
 
Robert Nicholson said:
What will become of these ranger rifles after the changeover to the new rifles? How likely is it that the fears of trade-in followed by destruction will come true?

It would be great to be able to buy one of the few that is in "almost new" condition as mentioned by wayupnorth. What are the chances of that happening?
Click to expand...

We are bound by UN treaty to destroy all arms that we can not sell or give to a UN country not under an arms sanction. No one wants bolt guns so they are going to the smelter.
 
Quite a few were bought on the Surplus market. When Century Arms was still in Montreal they sold to the Canadian Goverment a large number of No. 4 rifles.
 
Im a ranger in the 1CRPG and we are going to be gifted our enfields when we receive the new .308's. I'm very happy about this as I have a like new #4 mk2 "Irish contract" rifle. So it will stay in my family for generations to come. Plus I'll have a new 308 to fill the gun safe with.
 
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