Close Over Under with or without a slow release of the lever, and Beretta wear

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calvados.boulard

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Hi everyone,

A debate has come up at my local range regarding how you close an OU and the wear associated with it. I have two questions:


  1. Is is indeed easier on the OU to keep your thumb on the lever as you close the gun, then once closed to slowly let off the lever and allow it to lock up? --OR-- Is it better for the gun to simply close it and let it lock closed on it's own with no interference from your thumb?
  2. On Beretta SPs there are two circular holes on the barrel side where the locking lugs protrude into when the action is closed. One member at my range was looking at another members, and commented that his holes were no longer circular, and that is a strong indicator of excessive wear. The holes were looking a bit oval-ish. He went on to look at the pins on the receiver (or lugs...not sure on the correct term) that fit into the aforementioned holes when the action is closed, and noticed that there was visible wear on the circular pins between 4 and 8 o'clock. Again he pointed out that this is a sign of excessive wear that could have been prevented by easing off the lever when closing the action.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Cal.
 
Wear is wear, unless you have a zero friction solution you can't stop two pieces that rub from wearing.
I don't know about any o/u but wearing the action out vs wearing the spring on the action lock is kinda straight forward.

Quality shotguns i would imagine have a lessor metal on the locking lugs to encourge them to wear before the action.
How many repitions each can handle will also be up to the quality of metal in the firearm.
 
calvados.boulard said:
Thanks, but that discussions talks about storage of the OU, whereas I'm talking about closing the action when getting ready to shoot, and the wear associated with letting it close on its own, or slowing lowering the lever with your thumb.

Thanks,
Cal.
Click to expand...

You would need to read the entire thread. Good coverage on the very topic. Actually, several years ago, I had encountered the exact scenario that you described. In my case, it was a 686 White Onyx. I was experiencing resistance when closing the breech by snapping shut (gently) but allowing the lever free travel to default location. In the process, I noticed the left pin had slightly deformed the interfacing circular hole. The problem went away once I started to first close the breech with the lever held firmly in the open position.

I ought to add - I had purchased the 12 as well as a 20 WO together (both new). However, I did not experience this trouble from simply snapping shut the breech of the 20. In fact, haven't had the issue with any other 686s SPs that I own to date. Having said that, I now follow the procedure that Beretta687 had outlined in that attached thread. :)
 
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Ahh yes. I didn't read the entire thread. Bad me. Yes there is some good info in there. What are your thought on how circular the holes are being indicative of unnecessary wear?

Thanks again,
Cal.
 
Don't really think it is a huge issue, yes when any two metal surfaces meet , there will be friction and wear. But good lubrication, and not slamming the gun shut should keep it to a minimal. I know of several quality O/U that are well over 70k mark in rounds, still close well and shoot fine. When any manufacture tells me to hold the lever over to shut my gun, I'll look for another gun
 
Kenny said:
Don't really think it is a huge issue, yes when any two metal surfaces meet , there will be friction and wear. But good lubrication, and not slamming the gun shut should keep it to a minimal. I know of several quality O/U that are well over 70k mark in rounds, still close well and shoot fine. When any manufacture tells me to hold the lever over to shut my gun, I'll look for another gun
Click to expand...

I will do the same. Holding the lever is a good way to not notice the gun not closing fully, and then not firing as a result.
 
Probably would cause less wear... But quality parts should take a long time to wear either way.

I wouldn't be concerned about the pins or holes if the lockup was still solid.
 
Beretta pins are tapered to advance and keep a tight lock up if wear occurs with use, still a good general rule to hold the top lever to the right when closing the gun.
 
I used to get my Beretta serviced at the Grand American every year when it was at Vandaillia, Ohio. The service manager of Beretta USA at that time told me to hold the lever to the side when closing the gun. This would minimized the wear on the locking system. The system wears the "pins" and elongates the holes in the barrel. There are 4 sets of increasingly larger diameter "pins" that Beretta makes. Once you wear out the largest set, you have to weld up the holes in the barrel and then drill them out to the smallest diameter and you can then start over. The top lever will sit in the middle or slightly left of center, which indicates that the system is worn and then the gun will start to pop open upon firing. If the lever is to the right, then there is lots of life left in the locking system. I shot that gun for many years and fired 10s of thousands of rounds through it and the lever was well to the right when I sold it earlier this year. The gun never failed to lock up.

I now shoot a Kolar and I had the same discussion with the fellow that is the chief engineer and head designer of the Kolar guns. His comments were that it didn't matter either way, but did agree that the Kolar locking system would wear minimally over time with heavy use. So, I still hold the lever to the side and the Kolar doesn't open up upon firing and I figure that I have shot the gun in excess of 100,000 rounds.

So, suit yourself on this issue, it is your gun and your money to spend how you like. YMMV
 
I have a tendency to close my guns gently with my thumb dampening the lever.
I don't like slamming them closed and one should not have to with a well made shotgun.:cool:
Cat
 
Many years ago, a very knowlegable gentleman advised me that sxs and ou guns should be closed like the door to a bank vault.
Firmly, but with restaint. Never "slam" shut.
I cringe whenever I see (or hear) someone slamming their gun closed, irregardless of make or $ value.
 
calvados.boulard said:
Is is indeed easier on the OU to keep your thumb on the lever as you close the gun, then once closed to slowly let off the lever and allow it to lock up? --OR-- Is it better for the gun to simply close it and let it lock closed on it's own with no interference from your thumb?
Click to expand...
If those are the only two choices let the lever close on its own without interference. I take the middle route which is to keep the lever to the left and let it snap closed under its own power. Easing the lever means the locking lugs may not always fully seat.

calvados.boulard said:
On Beretta SPs there are two circular holes on the barrel side where the locking lugs protrude into when the action is closed. One member at my range was looking at another members, and commented that his holes were no longer circular, and that is a strong indicator of excessive wear. The holes were looking a bit oval-ish. He went on to look at the pins on the receiver (or lugs...not sure on the correct term) that fit into the aforementioned holes when the action is closed, and noticed that there was visible wear on the circular pins between 4 and 8 o'clock. Again he pointed out that this is a sign of excessive wear that could have been prevented by easing off the lever when closing the action.
Click to expand...

It's a sign of wear but not a serious or excessive one. It's not one that could have been "prevented" by easing the lever into place.
 
thegunnut said:
Many years ago, a very knowlegable gentleman advised me that sxs and ou guns should be closed like the door to a bank vault.
Firmly, but with restaint. Never "slam" shut.
I cringe whenever I see (or hear) someone slamming their gun closed, irregardless of make or $ value.
Click to expand...

I agree, We have one fellow that shoots skeet that slams the actions closed on his guns, and I can't imagine that this is good for the action.
 
Interesting subject. Slamming a gun shut puts a fairly large impulse force on the pivot pin or trunnions when the action comes to rest. Understandably, these bits are designed to take large forces during firing, but why contribute to the aging process if it can be avoided.
As far as the locking lugs, or in the case of berettas, locking pins, I believe there is some downside to not allowing the locking mechanism to fully seat upon closure of the action. It is obvious that if you baby the lever to the closed position, it will come to rest at a lesser degree of closure than if closed unaided. Allowing the action to "shuffle" a bit during firing will create much larger impulse forces, and causes more relative movement between the mating surfaces - a precursor to wear, in my mind.
So my philosophy is to close the action carefully, without interference to the lever, and to lube the critical lug or pin bearing surfaces with grease. The lubrication regimen is recommended by the manufacturers of bottom lug guns such as Browning, but Beretta appears to make no mention of this in their literature.
 
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Sounds like a bit of grease on the pins is in order. It will sure slow down the wear. The lever is an opening lever, not a closing lever. Leave it alone except for opening the action. I have shot many thousands of rounds through Beretta O/Us and have seen a bit of wear but have also worked on 680 series guns which have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds and they still lock up tight
 
Slamming it shut is a good way to increase wear. My ST10L shot open in May 2011. It was shipped to the Beretta Premium gunshop in Italy. It was deemed "premature wear" due to the action not seating properly. Luckily, Beretta took care of everything including shipping from here and back. My DT11 has always been closed slowly. This was emphasized to me at the plant visit nearly two years ago. While at Perugini e Visini and with Enrico Gamba, once more the emphasize was on slow closure of the action. It seems that if you hold the lever, the action is not seated. The firing of a shells in the loosely closed action increased wear.
 
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