Soo my Type 97 just blew up on me
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
Colin, glad you were not seriously injured.
To the people talking about warranty, when have you ever heard of a warranty with a norinco product? Sometimes the importer or retailer will offer a manufacturer's defects replacement if the rifle is still new or at their discretion has low rounds through it but there is no warranty with any norinco. The manufacturer doesn't even make spare parts for them, they are a disposable rifle and this is a perfect example of you get what you pay for.
I got tired of reading after page 8 but from the last couple pages I gather that something was found with the reloads? Even so, the only norinco products I would ever buy are a 1911 or m-305 but only if they were inspected by a gunsmith prior to me firing them. I choose those two because they are copies of American built firearms and if they are checked for tolerances then I feel they can be a safe firearm. I would not buy an M-4gery because there are better options available for under $1000 that are built in Canada or the US.
The T-97 is a commercial version of the T-95 that the Chinese military uses, the 97 was modified to use a different cartridge and you can bet there wasn't much R&D done to ensure reliable feeding and then add to that the non existent QC that they get when being built by children who don't bother to stop drilling the gas port and go half way through the other half of the barrel.
The T-97 in my opinion is definitely not worth the money. I value my life, and the life of my family and friends that I let shoot my guns too much to risk buying a rifle like this.
To the people talking about warranty, when have you ever heard of a warranty with a norinco product? Sometimes the importer or retailer will offer a manufacturer's defects replacement if the rifle is still new or at their discretion has low rounds through it but there is no warranty with any norinco. The manufacturer doesn't even make spare parts for them, they are a disposable rifle and this is a perfect example of you get what you pay for.
I got tired of reading after page 8 but from the last couple pages I gather that something was found with the reloads? Even so, the only norinco products I would ever buy are a 1911 or m-305 but only if they were inspected by a gunsmith prior to me firing them. I choose those two because they are copies of American built firearms and if they are checked for tolerances then I feel they can be a safe firearm. I would not buy an M-4gery because there are better options available for under $1000 that are built in Canada or the US.
The T-97 is a commercial version of the T-95 that the Chinese military uses, the 97 was modified to use a different cartridge and you can bet there wasn't much R&D done to ensure reliable feeding and then add to that the non existent QC that they get when being built by children who don't bother to stop drilling the gas port and go half way through the other half of the barrel.
The T-97 in my opinion is definitely not worth the money. I value my life, and the life of my family and friends that I let shoot my guns too much to risk buying a rifle like this.
I will be quite happy to buy another Type 97, I almost fired this same round out of my DPMS AR, I shudder to think what would have happened to me if I had. The gun except for the bolt head and the plastic cover is intact. I could use most of it again, but won't in case of micro-fractures. Think I will mount it as a reminder over my reloading bench.
Colin, on a bit of a side note,,,.
How many messages have you received of guys asking for parts?
Got me thinking of how many times I have seen threads about guys looking for this and that.
Like you said, if anything this has reinforced my confidence in the strength of the T97.
How many messages have you received of guys asking for parts?
Got me thinking of how many times I have seen threads about guys looking for this and that.
Like you said, if anything this has reinforced my confidence in the strength of the T97.
People have said north Sylva will sell parts... I pm'd and got a reply about someone to email then no reply from the email lol.
Unfounded fear of nothing? Is this the first T-97 that's blown up? Ask N Silvia how many rifles they've sold and how many have had issues to get a real idea of the failure rate. Saying that all brands and types of rifles out there have had a kaboom at one point means nothing if you're comparing a rifle that has tens of thousands sold versus a rifle that has only sold one thousand and has already had a few failures. It's been posted numerous times that the feed ramps are not cut properly which causes the bullet tip to jam and push into the cartridge which could cause increased pressures and potentially another destroyed rifle and injury. A strong crimp is a band-aid not a solution and suggesting that people modify the feed ramps is saying that the rifle comes unfinished from the manufacturer and requires repair to increase safety. I reload for my AR's and other semi auto rifles and I can load with no crimp and the bullet still glides right up the ramps. I crimp anyway but that's how a properly designed and built rifle should function.
Everyone who owns a T-97 should rethink their philosophy on their firearms purchases, is saving some money worth your safety? Willing to bet an eye on it? All the little pieces that hit Colin in the face could have easily gone other places, he was lucky to catch it all in the chin, a little different angle of his head to the rifle and some of those pieces could have been in his eye.
I'm not a big fan of the Tavor but I used to own one and I've handled and fired a T97 and the Tavor is so much better than the Norc that it's like comparing a Corvette to a horse drawn buggy. Just because your T97 hasn't blown up in your face doesn't mean it won't and just because you only run factory ammo doesn't mean you're safe. Why would anyone risk their safety just to save some money? If you want a bullpup buy a Tavor, at least you'll be getting a properly designed and tested rifle that is engineered to protect the shooter in case of a kaboom. You're going to say that the Tavor is $3000 and the T-97 is under $1000, you can buy three for the price of one. Yup and I would still buy a Tavor every time. Ask yourself, is your vision worth a couple thousand dollars to you?
The people who have had failures with this rifle so far have been lucky, just remember that luck always runs out eventually.
If they ever do sell parts it would most likely be from breaking down a couple new rifles and parting them out. I doubt that Norinco would bother with the hassle of exporting parts for these rifles. Would it be worth the trouble for a barrel that cost them $5 to make? Or a $2 bolt?
SquidMeister
CGN Regular
- Location
- New Soviet Albertistan
You're wrong in thinking the type 97 is a commercial version of the type 95. The Type 95 is a chinese military rifle, and because they don't generally sell their firearms chambered in their exclusive 5.8mm cartridge outside of china they make a military version that takes stanag magazines and is chambered in 5.56, plainly called the Type(QBZ) 97. They made that Type 97 semi auto for the civilian market and here we are, so there are purpose built military 5.56 rifles made that the 97NSR is based off of. Militaries around the world use Chinese weapons, and you don't hear about them blowing up en-masse, so they must be doing something right.
But that aside, I am extremely happy with MY type 97, it's accurate, reliable, eats anything I put in it and unlike you, I would bet my life on it. Granted it took me a bit of work and trial and error with magazines, but now I havent had a single issue in near 2000 rounds. If you bothered to read the thread this was a mess-up with reloads, nothing of this is the rifle's fault. There's pictures floating around of a dude who used the same powder in a savage rifle and it blew the rifle to pieces and caused some bad damage to his hand, so that being said, this rifle held up extremely well.
Saying a gun is superior because it is made in Canada or the US is unfounded anti-china bias. Are there better weapons out there? Yes of course, but to say "oh its chinese so it must be crap" is a stupid and ignorant statement.
It isn't unfounded at all. Chinese manufacturing has a well earned reputation for producing low quality goods, cutting corners, and substituting cheaper materials, that is decades old. Also, the fact that one does not hear about Chinese weapons "blowing up en-masse" does not mean they are reliable or that they are not poor quality. That is a logical fallacy: argumentum ad ignorantiam.
Frankly a caution of China and it's products is probably wise as they have a history of poor manufacturing, militant imperialism, rampant corruption, religious persecution, enviromental destruction and they protect a mad-hatter dictator while he acquires nuclear capabilty.
But heaven forbid we have "anti-china bias". Has the party sent you your 50 cents yet?
Id bet my life on both of my T97's and so far 5000 rounds deep with no issues.
Unless you drive around with a racing harness in your car, your logic is pretty broken
China's reputation is from people paying nothing and expecting the same as expensive. China is like anywhere, you can get quality if you pay them for it.
Unless you drive around with a racing harness in your car, your logic is pretty broken
China's reputation is from people paying nothing and expecting the same as expensive. China is like anywhere, you can get quality if you pay them for it.
SquidMeister
CGN Regular
- Location
- New Soviet Albertistan
Idk, all the militaries that have type 56s, type 81s, and type 97s aren't all balking at norinco for bad quality guns, so they must be doing something right. And granted china is a place of cheap manufacturing, they also do turn out some very high quality goods, especially firearms. I'd trust my life to all the norincos I have owned or do own now, save for that **** .22 Kar98 trainer.
As for their political track record, Russia did/does that too, but we still buy SKSs, SVTs and Nuggets by the thousands.
The T-97 is the same as the T-95 in the same way an AR-15 is the same as an M-16. They came from on rifle and each was made for a different market. The difference is that the rifle that gets all the R&D and engineering is the T-95, the T-97 is the bastard child of the T-95 and was simply converted to a different caliber for the civilian market and given a different trigger pack in a lower receiver that won't accept the T-95 trigger. They didn't even bother putting in the M-4 feed ramps that they obviously know how to cut since they make M-4geries.
Even if the Chinese military did have some kabooms, do you actually think they would tell the world about it?
You be happy with your T-97 all you want, I hope your luck with it never runs out and you learn the hard way about Chinese firearms they build for civilian export.
I never said any gun was superior to another simply because of where it was made. I said that Norinco firearms are poorly built firearms that have a history of problems and that of the two that they build that I find marginally acceptable I would not shoot unless a gunsmith had been over it first. My M-305 has been through the hands of a gunsmith and my Norinco 1911 has been to a specialist as well for tuning. Those are both good firearms that are reliable and safe. That being said I also have an American made 1911 that is far superior to the Norc 1911 and I would definitely prefer a Springfield.
Pretty sure I'm not anti-china firearms bias in any way since I've owned three of their 1911's, I'm down to one and it's conditionally sold to a friend of mine and the M-305 I currently own is my second and I sold the first to a good friend as well. I was originally on Questar's pre-order list, I decided against it though after seeing and hearing how these perform. Having to take a new rifle that is nearly $1000 and immediately file and polish the feed ramps to make it cycle semi-reliably, having to only use certain magazines, having as many reports of failures when there really aren't that many of these out there yet, 1.5 gas ports, all this with no adjustments made at the factory and no requests from the importers to the factory (that I'm aware of) for a change in production to fix these small things. And don't forget about buying the $400 FTU for your T-97 and chopping the top off of it making it a $1200-$1400 no warranty rifle.
Hell, I'm not anti China anything, I've been there on vacation and my wife is Chinese.
I don't like the Tavor either, I had already shot four of them and knew I didn't like them when I bought one just to give it a fair chance. It isn't for me but the Tavor is a very well built and safe rifle that I would rather save up longer for than risk my life with a T-97.
Any of you who say you would trust your life to it.
I'm taking that to mean you would trust it's reliability in a WROL situation where you were actually fighting for your life and potentially protecting the lives of your family. Would you still grab you T-97 as you run out the door if there was a Tavor, or a quality US or German built semi automatic like an AR or an HK?
Another thread of bickering lol gotta love CGN. There must be some useful information in here somewhere..... Nope.
Guns blow up now and again and it is usually ammo related, and sometimes gun related, clearly this was ammo related. Let it rest and live to argue another day. I am sure another Norinco thread will pop up sometime in the near future anyways....
Guns blow up now and again and it is usually ammo related, and sometimes gun related, clearly this was ammo related. Let it rest and live to argue another day. I am sure another Norinco thread will pop up sometime in the near future anyways....
