Premium scales users comments, milligram vs microgram?

K

Kryogen

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Location
Quebec
Considering that even the fx120i will be +- 1 kernel, does anyone here use the satorius entris 64-1s?


Looking to upgrade my gempro and even though a force resto milligram scale will be better, it still will be imprecise by 2 kernels.

Any microgram scale users? Comments?

My average sd was 10 and es was 30 with my last loads.(gempro cheap scale)

Please no suggestions for anything under 700$
 
Kryogen said:
Considering that even the fx120i will be +- 1 kernel, does anyone here use the satorius entris 64-1s?


Looking to upgrade my gempro and even though a force resto milligram scale will be better, it still will be imprecise by 2 kernels.

Any microgram scale users? Comments?

My average sd was 10 and es was 30 with my last loads.(gempro cheap scale)

Please no suggestions for anything under 700$
Click to expand...

How heavy is a kernel?
 
camster said:
How heavy is a kernel?
Click to expand...

Around .02 grains, so a scale that is +-.02 grains is +- 1 kernel...(2 kernels ES)
a scale that is +- .1 grains (chargemaster) is +- 5 kernels.... (10 kernels ES)
a scale that is +- .002 grains is +- .1 kernel, so ES of .2 kernels
 
I think it would be pretty hard to impossible to see the difference in the load between using the FX-120i or that sartorius.
Powder is not the only thing that will affect your velocity and accuracy, and all that really matters is that they fall on a fairly nice horizontal line at long distance. Again a lot about set up and shooting style and light conditions of the day can affect that...

I'll say that at the now $710 price for the Fx120i, I'd have a real hard time justifying one. I should have bought a few when they were $400.
If you don't mind spending the $, go ahead and get the sartorius or other decent .0001gram scale. Put it on a good granite surface plate, preferably temp and moisture controlled room, takes that portion out of the equation.
 
IF you are already thinking of getting the satorius entris 64-1s then you will not be happy with the A&D FX120i

I have the A&D FX120i and I am in the minority but i wish i had bought the .0001g higher quality scale. A&D HR100AZ.
The 2 kernals devation is one additional variable that i could have elimintated by stepping up to a higher quality scale.

There are a few shooters I know that purchased a higher grade scale. US F open shooters, Cdn F class shooters and Cdn TR shooters.

It also depends in large part what your intentions are. IF you are a steel shooter with 2 MOA targets the .0001 scale won't matter if you are shooting disciplines with 1/2 moa or tighter it will give you confidence that your loads is not the problem. look up Rodney Wagner 600yard

All the Best
Trevor
 
Good Grief!!!! I have never seen so much attention paid to inconsequential minutiae in my life, lol.

One of the lesser factors in seeking accuracy is tiny differences in the powder charge.

Talk to a few serious Benchrest shooters, and they will tell you their methods of achieving consistency.
Guaranteed it is not weighing powder to the kernel. :) Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
Good Grief!!!! I have never seen so much attention paid to inconsequential minutiae in my life, lol.

One of the lesser factors in seeking accuracy is tiny differences in the powder charge.

Talk to a few serious Benchrest shooters, and they will tell you their methods of achieving consistency.
Guaranteed it is not weighing powder to the kernel. :) Dave.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
I agree.

I've tried many expensive lab grade scales.


They drift. That's a much bigger problem than .02 grain accuracy

The 1000 yard F Class record was made with a RCBS Chargemaster.
 
Last edited:
Yikes

It is what ever you are comfortable with doing and spending and whether or not you want to keep up with the jones.

The guy in the video Charles Ballard shot the record in 2008 200-13X Danny Biggs took over in 2011 200-15x and David Grosnell 200-17x
The Cdn equalivent our very own Ont001 100-16v

Danny, David and Ont001 all use high dollar scales. and two of the three are really nice guys :p:p:p just busten Ont001

But to the others guys point with the proper load development guys can shoot some pretty solid scores with more affordable scales.

All the best
Trevor
 
C23 said:
I agree.

I've tried many expensive lab grade scales.


They drift. That's a much bigger problem than .02 grain accuracy

The 1000 yard F Class record was made with a RCBS Chargemaster.
Click to expand...

.0001g scales do drift (depending on enviro and clean elec) the difference for us kernal counters is that they do not drift greater then 1 kernal of powder and typically drift less then 1/2 of 1 kernal.

All the best
Trevor
 
Trevor60 said:
Yikes

It is what ever you are comfortable with doing and spending and whether or not you want to keep up with the jones.

The guy in the video Charles Ballard shot the record in 2008 200-13X Danny Biggs took over in 2011 200-15x and David Grosnell 200-17x
The Cdn equalivent our very own Ont001 100-16v

Danny, David and Ont001 all use high dollar scales. and two of the three are really nice guys :p:p:p just busten Ont001

But to the others guys point with the proper load development guys can shoot some pretty solid scores with more affordable scales.

All the best
Trevor
Click to expand...


Thanks Trevor.

What scale does Gord use?
 
Eagleye said:
Good Grief!!!! I have never seen so much attention paid to inconsequential minutiae in my life, lol.

One of the lesser factors in seeking accuracy is tiny differences in the powder charge.

Talk to a few serious Benchrest shooters, and they will tell you their methods of achieving consistency.
Guaranteed it is not weighing powder to the kernel. :) Dave.
Click to expand...

Don't want to sound harsh but for LR precision shooting like F class and 1000yds BR, we are most certainly seeing changes on group with very small changes in powder charges.

It boils down to the entire system... can the shooter shoot to that level? Can the rests support this level of accuracy? Can the rifle and set up hold sub 1/2 min accuracy at 1000yds?

Many top tier F class rifles WILL hold 1/4 min at LR... it is crazy scoring for a shooter and having to keep adding patches to a very small spotter.

Some may call BS but I tune to the 0.1gr of powder... On target, I can most certainly see the change to both group size and orientation.

For those that prefer to adjust seating depths, some will adjust in 3 thou steps... yep, less then thickness of a piece of paper (basically a human hair).

maybe it is critically (or better clinically) insane BUT the groups don't lie....

YMMV.

Jerry

PS, there are SR BR shooter who have moved to the wonderful world of F Class and have had a really hard time adjusting to our needs and what actually makes a gun shoot tight at LR. Those now having success are adopting our styles of ammo making... as we learnt from them in decades past. The quest to silly itty bitty groups is leading to all sorts of fine tuning considered science fiction not too long ago.
 
Mystic Precision said:
Don't want to sound harsh but for LR precision shooting like F class and 1000yds BR, we are most certainly seeing changes on group with very small changes in powder charges.

It boils down to the entire system... can the shooter shoot to that level? Can the rests support this level of accuracy? Can the rifle and set up hold sub 1/2 min accuracy at 1000yds?

Many top tier F class rifles WILL hold 1/4 min at LR... it is crazy scoring for a shooter and having to keep adding patches to a very small spotter.

Some may call BS but I tune to the 0.1gr of powder... On target, I can most certainly see the change to both group size and orientation.

For those that prefer to adjust seating depths, some will adjust in 3 thou steps... yep, less then thickness of a piece of paper (basically a human hair).

maybe it is critically (or better clinically) insane BUT the groups don't lie....

YMMV.

Jerry

PS, there are SR BR shooter who have moved to the wonderful world of F Class and have had a really hard time adjusting to our needs and what actually makes a gun shoot tight at LR. Those now having success are adopting our styles of ammo making... as we learnt from them in decades past. The quest to silly itty bitty groups is leading to all sorts of fine tuning considered science fiction not too long ago.
Click to expand...

Jerry,

Is there a scale that you would recommend to the OP?

Best Regards
 
When I was checking into the Fx120i another interesting one and maybe had been recommended on here was the Vibra brand, uses a tuning fork system.
There's a few options around the $1000 range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom