enamaled , urethane , powdered coated cast bullets through a antique ???

burnt_servo

burnt_servo

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anyone run coated cast bullets through a antique .

1st rule of thumb with a antique is to run very soft cast bullets to prevent wear to the bore and to prevent pressure spikes as a harder bullet is forced to conform to the bore .

by coated I mean either enamel paint , single stage urethane ( as in por15) that uses moisture to harden or powder coat .

doing some initial tests it seems a person can mix graphite with enamel and still have it properly adhere to the bullet .

i'm thinking this will reduce leading and deposits in a rough bore .

it could also mean that I can use the same bullets with the same coating in my rifle at much higher velocities .
 
the purpose of the soft lead is not to reduce wear on the rifling but so that the bullet will upset (obturate) in the bore and fit the rifling better. I would be leary of using the sort of coatings that you are suggesting because I think the coating would tend to foul the bore and be difficult to remove. Black powder lubes are much softer than those for smokeless bullets and ones like SPG are a mixture of bees wax and animal fat grease

cheers mooncoon
 
The powder coating idea is already being done by a lot of folks that prefer it to lubing the bullets. I've never seen anything about any enamel or polyurethane varnish. That stuff isn't very tough and is very thin.

The cast bullets won't do any of those things you are worried about. The cast bullets you would be using now would be the same alloy as used then to shoot well without leading.

If you're worried about your antique gun the proper precaution is to load and shoot the same black powder rounds it did way back when. Black powder has a far slower pressure build to the peak and is a lot kinder on the metal of the old guns.

If you take the precaution that is worth following and load black powder loads then you'll want to use the cast bullets. But for the best results you'll also want to boil out the wax lube and replace it with that beeswax and Crisco shortening or beeswax and olive oil or some other known effective black powder bullet lube.

I know that folks are using the powder coated bullets with smokeless. But all that I've read about it suggests that you really want to use correctly lubed bullets for black powder as the lube aids in keeping the fouling soft in the barrel.
 
BCRider said:
The powder coating idea is already being done by a lot of folks that prefer it to lubing the bullets. I've never seen anything about any enamel or polyurethane varnish. That stuff isn't very tough and is very thin.

The cast bullets won't do any of those things you are worried about. The cast bullets you would be using now would be the same alloy as used then to shoot well without leading.

If you're worried about your antique gun the proper precaution is to load and shoot the same black powder rounds it did way back when. Black powder has a far slower pressure build to the peak and is a lot kinder on the metal of the old guns.

If you take the precaution that is worth following and load black powder loads then you'll want to use the cast bullets. But for the best results you'll also want to boil out the wax lube and replace it with that beeswax and Crisco shortening or beeswax and olive oil or some other known effective black powder bullet lube.

I know that folks are using the powder coated bullets with smokeless. But all that I've read about it suggests that you really want to use correctly lubed bullets for black powder as the lube aids in keeping the fouling soft in the barrel.
Click to expand...

not polyurethane varnish .

google por15 , this is a single stage , catalysed by moisture , urethane based " paint" .

I ran across a youtube video with a guy from Australia using a similar product , but different name on bullets .
it doesn't come off of stuff it comes into contact with .... get it on our hands and it has to wear off , 4 weeks later people will still know what colour you where painting .

I don't use black powder , it is a pain in the ass .
the last batch or reloads with cast bullets I had made , the lube ran out of the grooves while they sat in a hot truck . this makes for possibly unreliable ammo .
 
burnt_servo said:
anyone run coated cast bullets through a antique .

1st rule of thumb with a antique is to run very soft cast bullets to prevent wear to the bore and to prevent pressure spikes as a harder bullet is forced to conform to the bore .

by coated I mean either enamel paint , single stage urethane ( as in por15) that uses moisture to harden or powder coat .

doing some initial tests it seems a person can mix graphite with enamel and still have it properly adhere to the bullet .

i'm thinking this will reduce leading and deposits in a rough bore .

it could also mean that I can use the same bullets with the same coating in my rifle at much higher velocities .
Click to expand...

I have run a few powder coated bullets threw my Snider (smokeless loads) and they seemed to work ok. In my case obturation is not possible with the light loads that I shoot so I size my bullets to the bore. The bore was clean and shiny after 25 rounds. Not sure if I will PC more or not. Takes more time than I have at the moment. I certainly would not try it with black powder.
 
I have not come across any "antidotal proven damage" done by a PC bullet in an antique...there a however lots of "old school" BP antique shooters that stick to the notion that "they won't use a lip-stick bullet" for a # of unheralded reasons. I'm not one of those, I have used PC bullets in my antiques (both BP and very mild smokeless) and will continue to do so.

The thing with PC'd bullets and BP is that they will work...with a "caveat"... The Pc does the same thing in a BP round as it does in a smokeless round, that being "it lubricates and guards against leading the bore"...better than any other lube I have used I might add. The caveat with BP is that the perfect BP lube also "softens" the BP fowling and PC bullets don't do this, you require a "grease cookie" of a more traditional (non-petroleum based) lube to mitigate the hard dry fowling.
 
I have read anecdotal accounts of PC raising the initial chamber pressures as compared to a lead bullet. I don't have any proof of this myself. We do know that jacketed bullets raise initial chamber pressures as compared to lead bullets, so it might be possible that PC bullets act in a similar way. IF PC raises pressures there are some circumstances where that could be detrimental to the firearm but that would depend on the load and the bore to bullet fit. Honestly - I don't know it it's something to be concerned about or not.
 
jethunter said:
I have read anecdotal accounts of PC raising the initial chamber pressures as compared to a lead bullet. I don't have any proof of this myself. We do know that jacketed bullets raise initial chamber pressures as compared to lead bullets, so it might be possible that PC bullets act in a similar way. IF PC raises pressures there are some circumstances where that could be detrimental to the firearm but that would depend on the load and the bore to bullet fit. Honestly - I don't know it it's something to be concerned about or not.
Click to expand...

I had read that too , but for the life of me I can't find it again . so i'm not sure if it is a real concern or not .
 
so just a bit of a update as to what i'm doing .

i'm trying to make a more accurate , potentially more deadly bullet to use in my French 1873 , chambered in 45 schofield .

what appears to be happening is one side of the bore is fouling and causing the bullets to pull to one side on paper after a few rounds .

I also have a issue of the rifling being several thou deeper on one side compared to the other ( causing the bullets to become somewhat oval instead of round out the end of the barrel ).

i'm addressing this in a couple of ways . first off I recut a old bullet mould so the bullet rides on 4 driving bands , reducing the surface area in contact with the barrel
this will let me use a slightly harder alloy , but still have the bearing surface of the bullet easily deform without raising pressures .

also the driving band will now only deform , instead of the entire bullet .

the other thing is , how am going to "lube " the bullet .

thus this thread

i'm actually hoping that the bullet coating used will find their way into all the irregularities in the barrel and help fill them in , similar to what some guys experience with molly coated bullets .


so far I just have played with enameled bullets . I added powdered graphite to the enamel .
with the graphite the enamel acted exactly like the ones without graphite .
same adhesion to the bullet , similar curing time . similar flaking in the resizing die .
 
fingers284 said:
I have not come across any "antidotal proven damage" done by a PC bullet in an antique...there a however lots of "old school" BP antique shooters that stick to the notion that "they won't use a lip-stick bullet" for a # of unheralded reasons. I'm not one of those, I have used PC bullets in my antiques (both BP and very mild smokeless) and will continue to do so.

The thing with PC'd bullets and BP is that they will work...with a "caveat"... The Pc does the same thing in a BP round as it does in a smokeless round, that being "it lubricates and guards against leading the bore"...better than any other lube I have used I might add. The caveat with BP is that the perfect BP lube also "softens" the BP fowling and PC bullets don't do this, you require a "grease cookie" of a more traditional (non-petroleum based) lube to mitigate the hard dry fowling.
Click to expand...

have you fired a powder coated bullet in bore with rough spots ?
 
I have, but the pitting was very slight and there was no lead residue at all left behind. I have a couple of "more damaged" rifles I want to try and will do so later this summer.

I think I understand what you are doing with the mold for your pistol, I take it you are thinning the main riding bands down, making the grease grooves wider in an attempt to lighten and lessen the rotational effect the more weight would have on the lop-sided bullet...I got to give you credit for the effort and idea and hope it works but in this case you might be trying to make a silk purse out of a "Wendy" ear.
 
fingers284 said:
I have, but the pitting was very slight and there was no lead residue at all left behind. I have a couple of "more damaged" rifles I want to try and will do so later this summer.

I think I understand what you are doing with the mold for your pistol, I take it you are thinning the main riding bands down, making the grease grooves wider in an attempt to lighten and lessen the rotational effect the more weight would have on the lop-sided bullet...I got to give you credit for the effort and idea and hope it works but in this case you might be trying to make a silk purse out of a "Wendy" ear.
Click to expand...

this is a gun I pack with me while in the bush , so while it is flawless mechanically , it has some flaws , surface pitting on the outside of the gun and some issues within the barrel ( the rifling is sharp and not worn ) .

on a scale of 1 to 10 , the grief and hassle to get a wilderness atc would be a 9 , what i'm doing in comparison is around a 2 .


your correct , the bullet is basically a 260 grain 44 cal bullet with 4 thin bands around it to center it into a 45 caliber barrel .








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I just had another thought , and i'm making a note of it here ....... I wonder how something like a powdered Teflon mixing into a sub straight like a "paint" might work when applied to cast bullet?
 
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