Cheap double guns

I like to shoot skeet with a SxS now and then, but to be honest, I likely only shoot a dozen or so rounds of skeet per year with each of my SxS shotguns. On the other hand, I average well over 300 rounds of trap and skeet with my O/U shotguns.
 
I only shoot a couple rounds of skeet with my SXS's to warm up prior to upland opener... all O/U's other than that.
 
Sound advice. Thanks all, I believe I'm catching on. Love the help. You all seem pretty passionate about shotguns. I only have 4 shotguns, so far, but I am hooked on double guns. Will eventually buy a quality gun. I know it will last my lifetime and something my son can use for years after I'm gone.
 
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If you can find a used Browning BSS, they are usually not too bad 1500-1700 area. Nice sxs for the money. I have one in 20 with an English Stk that is a great little upland gun. It's busted more than it's share of clays as well. That's the lowest end that I would even look at for a sxs, personally
 
the spank said:
I'm probably going to get jumped on here for this but here are my thoughts on SxS's. First off I LOVE the looks of a quality SxS. There is nothing more pleasing to the eye than the workmanship put into these guns. Now with that being said I truly believe all SXS's with the exception of custom ordered or larger framed and stocked heavier versions are made for one intended function. Upland hunting!! I am of the opinion by the very nature of their design they were not intended as target guns. They are made to carry afield and bust flushing upland birds. If they are intended for use with high volumes of shooting such as in a driven bird hunt or trap and skeet shooting they are of a much better quality. They have to be just by the design of their receivers and barrel locking systems. There is a reason for some of the extra strength locking designs, the forces applied upon firing a shot. Most are not aware that when a shell is fired the barrels pull forward as the receiver pushes rearward with the shot. That causes alot of stress on the hinge pin. In an o/u most manufacturers designs rely on the hinge pin to take up the full weight of the shot stresses. Browning and Beretta are examples of that. On a Perazzi however which by the way uses the Boss system the stresses are absorbed by the way the sides of the monobloc fit into the receiver like pieces of a puzzle or a kids shapes game, putting the square block in the square hole for example. This leaves the hinge pins for nothing more than rotation purposes for opening and closing the gun which is why Boss style guns are so strong and pins rarely need changing even after as many as hundreds of thousands of rounds. Comparing a SxS with an over under you do not have a cross section that large to take up that much stress. The barrels sit on a flat surface known as the water table and either lock in via a boxlock or sidelock design primarily. On lower end guns the tolerances and quality of materials used just isn't conducive to the SXS designs imposed firing stresses to withstand high volumes of shooting. If you look at American made SXS's you'll see the thought process for guns made to take the stresses of big heavy waterfowl loads or higher volumes of shooting were generally made on big beefy platforms which drastically takes away the SxS's light handling characteristics. SxS's and single shots were at one time all that was available to trap shooters. With the invention of the slide action(pump) the SxS fell by the wayside quickly as a trap gun as the slide action was much more favoured due to its better pointing characteristics for American style trap. As I said earlier I truly love the look of a quality SxS but having tried them on the trap field I can state my preference goes to the o/u.
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I have 1 O/U and close to 20 SxS and you won't get any argument from me. I think this post and spank's earlier post are right on the money. SxS are for shooting game. If the range is going to be a significant part of what you do, go for an O/U. Or do what I did.....buy a bunch of guns. LOL
 
loogin28 said:
OK, had a Stoeger Uplander Supreme, shot it one year. Gave to my son, went to a clay shoot with him. He brought said Stoeger. The gun is so loose now, I'm kinda disappointed. Total round count, maybe 1200. Turned my off of that brand. My question is, how does a shooter get into the double gun realm with some quality without breaking the bank. Totally understand, get what you pay for. Why make something that fails so fast? Used is good, however pictures, description, still don't guarantee quality
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I hate to be a dink, but, what have you learned?
 
canvasback said:
I have 1 O/U and close to 20 SxS and you won't get any argument from me. I think this post and spank's earlier post are right on the money. SxS are for shooting game. If the range is going to be a significant part of what you do, go for an O/U. Or do what I did.....buy a bunch of guns. LOL
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Strange coincidence. I too, have one U/O and about 20 sxs. My U/O is my trap gun, the rest are for hunting. And, yes, Spank's posts pretty much hit the mark.

It's been hinted at in this thread, and said too often to count on this board, but I'll repeat one more time: buy the gun - not the brand/model. Certainly, do your homework and narrow the odds by considering the benefits/shortcomings of each brand and various models, but when it comes time to part with your cash, consider only the individual piece in front of you.

Baikal, for example, has a reputation for durabilty, but also for bulk and utilitarian aesthetics. Well, I have three Baikal (ToZ, Tula actually) that are a hammergun model which was never a standard production model and ceased production altogether roughly in 1958. That model is svelt, well balanced, and of approriate weight for the guage (I have one each 12, 16, and 20 ga.). Incredibly, all three are on scaled frames. None of which anyone would expect from the Russian factories. I just learned in the last month that at least 2 of the 3 were probably made in the custom shop at the TO3 plant. Here's the part that'll really make you puke - I paid less than $1000 for all three combined. (separate purchases).

I have a glorious Lefevre in the 2nd best condition I've ever seen anywhere for a Lefevre (whether for sale or not). Paid $70 for it. I could go on, but you don't want to hear it.

Based on the quality (many of them hand made) and comparisons with what you get for your money with new guns, I'd say the used market is the ONLY place to look for a good sxs at "affordable" prices.
 
This is just a question, but what about the Steven's 311? I see them now and again, and they seem to last a bit. I was gonna pick one up 2 years ago, but the seller had a rifle I wanted more, and I had to choose. When I went back a week later to get the 311, it was gone. It had really nice color case hardening, and the triggers were good from what I can recall. Would these be along the lines of the Stoegers in that they may be better suited to occasional upland game?
 
straightshooter said:
Strange coincidence. I too, have one U/O and about 20 sxs. My U/O is my trap gun, the rest are for hunting. And, yes, Spank's posts pretty much hit the mark.

It's been hinted at in this thread, and said too often to count on this board, but I'll repeat one more time: buy the gun - not the brand/model. Certainly, do your homework and narrow the odds by considering the benefits/shortcomings of each brand and various models, but when it comes time to part with your cash, consider only the individual piece in front of you.

Baikal, for example, has a reputation for durabilty, but also for bulk and utilitarian aesthetics. Well, I have three Baikal (ToZ, Tula actually) that are a hammergun model which was never a standard production model and ceased production altogether roughly in 1958. That model is svelt, well balanced, and of approriate weight for the guage (I have one each 12, 16, and 20 ga.). Incredibly, all three are on scaled frames. None of which anyone would expect from the Russian factories. I just learned in the last month that at least 2 of the 3 were probably made in the custom shop at the TO3 plant. Here's the part that'll really make you puke - I paid less than $1000 for all three combined. (separate purchases).

I have a glorious Lefevre in the 2nd best condition I've ever seen anywhere for a Lefevre (whether for sale or not). Paid $70 for it. I could go on, but you don't want to hear it.

Based on the quality (many of them hand made) and comparisons with what you get for your money with new guns, I'd say the used market is the ONLY place to look for a good sxs at "affordable" prices.
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There is a Russian sporting journalist who posts on Doubleguns with links to his shotgun blog. He is now translating it into English (quite well done) and if you have an interest in some of the quality work that went on there, it's a good read. He covers other topics as well, but its nice to get that perspective.
 
SKB side by sides are nice quality for the money, looking on the used market. Stevens 311 are durable but lack any sort of grace.
 
sgt.rock said:
This is just a question, but what about the Steven's 311? I see them now and again, and they seem to last a bit. I was gonna pick one up 2 years ago, but the seller had a rifle I wanted more, and I had to choose. When I went back a week later to get the 311, it was gone. It had really nice color case hardening, and the triggers were good from what I can recall. Would these be along the lines of the Stoegers in that they may be better suited to occasional upland game?
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I have a Savage Fox B, which is essentially the same gun, but with upgraded wood and minor finish upgrades. I have a like/hate relationship with that gun. What I shoot at with it, I hit. But, it has broken in the field more often than all my other guns put together (5 times!). The good news is that I fixed it myself all 5 times - they're a pretty simple design. They're certainly not the worst guns I've ever seen, but you won't see me carrying it in the field again. I wouldn't call it lively or well balanced and it's on the heavy side for the gauge (12). It's become my loaner gun. I lend it to new hunters who are liable to drag it through the mud and bash it into trees. It's kinda spooky how much rough handling it can take without so much as a scratch to the finish. It was one of my first purchases, back when I could be fooled by a nice finish combined with a low price.

A 311 is all of the above, except they start looking scratched and faded soon after leaving the box. The B's indestructible finish makes it look better; nothing more.

With their hefty weight and well regulated barrels, these might be an example of a sxs that could be used for clays (other than skeet). You'd have to get over the embarrassment of the constant breakdowns, but they'd soak up much of the recoil of target loads and don't come with a high entry price. They're not built to run tens of thousands of rounds through them, but they can handle thousands.
 
straightshooter said:
I have a Savage Fox B, which is essentially the same gun, but with upgraded wood and minor finish upgrades. I have a like/hate relationship with that gun. What I shoot at with it, I hit. But, it has broken in the field more often than all my other guns put together (5 times!). The good news is that I fixed it myself all 5 times - they're a pretty simple design. They're certainly not the worst guns I've ever seen, but you won't see me carrying it in the field again. I wouldn't call it lively or well balanced and it's on the heavy side for the gauge (12). It's become my loaner gun. I lend it to new hunters who are liable to drag it through the mud and bash it into trees. It's kinda spooky how much rough handling it can take without so much as a scratch to the finish. It was one of my first purchases, back when I could be fooled by a nice finish combined with a low price.

A 311 is all of the above, except they start looking scratched and faded soon after leaving the box. The B's indestructible finish makes it look better; nothing more.

With their hefty weight and well regulated barrels, these might be an example of a sxs that could be used for clays (other than skeet). You'd have to get over the embarrassment of the constant breakdowns, but they'd soak up much of the recoil of target loads and don't come with a high entry price. They're not built to run tens of thousands of rounds through them, but they can handle thousands.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply with all that information. It really helps those of us that are MAIL ORDER ONLY types!!
 
I am always a little "miffed" by those who will drop $50 k or more every 5 years or so on a Pick-up (or SUV ) with lots of options and at the same time be looking
for a inexpensive O/U (or SxS) to shoot several hundred to several thousand rounds a year out of. Yes, we all know that with good care and maintenance, you
may well get good service out of your truck for 15 years or more, but a quality O/U or SxS will likely last a virtual lifetime or more of shooting at a fraction of the same cost, likely much less than the depreciation on that high buck vehicle. Just saying .... :)
 
beretta boy;12819301[B said:
]I am always a little "miffed" by those who will drop $50 k or more every 5 years or so on a Pick-up (or SUV ) with lots of options and at the same time be looking[/B]
for a inexpensive O/U (or SxS) to shoot several hundred to several thousand rounds a year out of. Yes, we all know that with good care and maintenance, you
may well get good service out of your truck for 15 years or more, but a quality O/U or SxS will likely last a virtual lifetime or more of shooting at a fraction of the same cost, likely much less than the depreciation on that high buck vehicle. Just saying .... :)
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Unless you're like me and drive vintage, LOL. I believe in getting miles out of a vehicle.
 
beretta boy said:
I am always a little "miffed" by those who will drop $50 k or more every 5 years or so on a Pick-up (or SUV ) with lots of options and at the same time be looking
for a inexpensive O/U (or SxS) to shoot several hundred to several thousand rounds a year out of. Yes, we all know that with good care and maintenance, you
may well get good service out of your truck for 15 years or more, but a quality O/U or SxS will likely last a virtual lifetime or more of shooting at a fraction of the same cost, likely much less than the depreciation on that high buck vehicle. Just saying .... :)
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Hahaha!! I am the complete opposite. Unless you own some factory mint condition collectors car a vehicle is a losing proposition. How many double guns do you see in the EE that 30 years ago were $300 new and now fetch $1500 and upwards after 30 years of use? LOTS!! Show me that with your everyday vehicle!!
 
gunsaholic said:
Unless you're like me and drive vintage, LOL. I believe in getting miles out of a vehicle.
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LOL Pathfinder - 14 years old, 325,000 km. Bought it in spring of 1987 with less than 45,000 km on it for $16,000 and got them to throw in some winter tires. I pissed away so much money on cars between the ages of 18 and 40. Then I just stopped. More money for other things and a vehicle just takes me places....no ego in it anymore.

And to Spank's point.....should kept my original 1967 RS/SS 350 Camaro Convertible.....but it got stolen and never recovered. Insurance pay out wasn't bad though. And I should have kept my 1972 Pantera. That would sell today for a good bit more than I paid. But I got married and thought selling it would be a good idea.

I was an idiot. I no longer have the car and I no longer have the wife.

Moral of the story is spend lots of money on guns.
 
canvasback said:
LOL Pathfinder - 14 years old, 325,000 km. Bought it in spring of 1987 with less than 45,000 km on it for $16,000 and got them to throw in some winter tires. I pissed away so much money on cars between the ages of 18 and 40. Then I just stopped. More money for other things and a vehicle just takes me places....no ego in it anymore.

And to Spank's point.....should kept my original 1967 RS/SS 350 Camaro Convertible.....but it got stolen and never recovered. Insurance pay out wasn't bad though. And I should have kept my 1972 Pantera. That would sell today for a good bit more than I paid. But I got married and thought selling it would be a good idea.

I was an idiot. I no longer have the car and I no longer have the wife.

Moral of the story is spend lots of money on guns.
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Yeah, For a few years I bought a new vehicle every year or two. Then I decided to heck with loosing that kind of money. Now my truck is a 92 Dakota, and the wife has a 06 Nissan X Trail.
 
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