T2 Garand - Part 1

[klaus enuff]

Before you go white knighting to the government

How much of a #### pile do you want to stir up?

Something about spiting ones face.

Government will sell us out for a vote

Media will burn us for a story

RCMP is outright hostile

Choose your battles wisely.

If I had fired the garands Marstar sold me I might not have a face. If I had let one of my friends fire them...

I will hold onto the guns until at least Monday. My weekend plans have now changed to documenting the problems with the rifles in my possesion. I am not the best at posting pictures but when I do there is one rifle that is so shockingly dangerous, when you see the pictures you will be stunned if you aren't already.

To all the people contacting and writing various bodies and organizations thank you. At a minimum I will be contacting the proof house in Cologne.

 

[wbaad]

German Military Attache,
German Embassy,
1 Waverley St
Ottawa

Dear Sir:

I wrote to you yesterday about a possible weapons crime that had been committed in Germany. I explained that I bought a rifle with a possibly forged Cologne Proof House marking.

I just contacted the Cologne Proof House and they confirmed my fears. The Cologne Proof House only marks weapons using a hammer struck die. The markings on my rifle were applied with a laser engraver and the use of this tool would indicate that serious wrongdoing has taken place.

In my respectful view, a thorough investigation by the German authorities might uncover other even more serious violations of German law.


Yours very truly,


Etc

Holy ####!

I called it on the proofs! Never seen lazer engraved ones, even on the expensive guns, plus it's the same font and machine that did the export mark.

There is some serious ####ery going on with these, and if marstar was in fact not aware of this, they should have recalled them and dealt with this themselves. At least take the ad down for gods sakes!

I don't think government intervention would do anybody any good...

Quite the pickle!

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Before you go white knighting to the government

How much of a #### pile do you want to stir up?

Something about spiting ones face.

Government will sell us out for a vote

Media will burn us for a story

RCMP is outright hostile

Choose your battles wisely.

Exactly and well said. What we don't need is Ring Leaders and Hot Headed "SaskQuatchstens" running to the gubmint. Just remember the BD38 and BD3008 situation that the Plick from Sask caused with his Big Mouth, No Brain and key board...unless you're Liberal and like running a band saw producing "All Your" scrap metal for the Smelter.

Tone it down and think before you type.

 

[Claven2]

white knighting to which gov't? If the german proof house is being slandered, it's appropriate to advise the Germans.

 

[Kruffe]

These rifles are not original T2 that were in storage for many decades. The description on Mastars website are absolutely incorrect. The Italian deliveries of Garands to the Danish Military were all in 30-06. Denmark did not surplus any Garands before the 1990's - and the surplus of the Danish Garands was acutally highly controversial here in Denmark and almost fell through. Any sale/surplus from the Danish Army is well documented. The company that initially purchased the Garands is actually only located 30km from me. Just to end any speculation/further discussion about originality of these rifles - if you encounter a Garand in 308win built on a Danish marked receiver, then it is not military original. These rifles are all COMMERCIAL put together parts guns!

Greetings from DENMARK.

//Kruffe (Danish Licensed Firearms Dealer)

 

[firstson]

For all the folks on here asking for a criminal investigation by various L/E organizations into this incident ; just be careful what you wish for as it could open the door for the Liberals to ban all Military Surplus imports for public safety reasons . If I recall correctly ; the CZ 858 and Swiss Arms came under investigation by the RCMP after one dealer filed a complaint about another dealer for selling the rifles . We do not have a firearm friendly govt. in power at this time ; and this may be the chance that the RCMP is waiting for to ban some more guns .

What, you don't think that a rifle has been sold into the public market. Has been grossly mis-advertized. Has the high potential of maiming if not killing the user. This is not enough for you to meet your idea of criminal. If this isn't criminal, you tell me what is?

 

[fredqc]

What, you don't think that a rifle has been sold into the public market. Has been grossly mis-advertized. Has the high potential of maiming if not killing the user. This is not enough for you to meet your idea of criminal. If this isn't criminal, you tell me what is?

He is not saying it is right, not criminal or not dangerous, just that it could cause more problems to guns owners, thats all....

 

[Mark-II]

white knighting to which gov't? If the german proof house is being slandered, it's appropriate to advise the Germans.

Our government, naturally. The community has gotten the word out on these. The authorities could and would not do a better job of that.

We have no friends in Our government. Only opportunists who would use this for their own agenda.

there is a line to be crossed between getting word out on a dangerous rifle and pursuing vendetta against the guy who sold them.

I see guys here who are willing to set everything on fire just to watch one man burn.

That's not a productive attitude.

Right now anyone with even the slightest curiosity to research marstar tipo Garand is going to end up at this thread or, presumably, others like it.

And for the proof house. It's been reported - great. It's up to them to pursue fraud and protect their mark now.

 

[polaris]

Our government, naturally. The community has gotten the word out on these. The authorities could and would not do a better job of that.

We have no friends in Our government. Only opportunists who would use this for their own agenda.

there is a line to be crossed between getting word out on a dangerous rifle and pursuing vendetta against the guy who sold them.

I see guys here who are willing to set everything on fire just to watch one man burn.

That's not a productive attitude.

^^^^^^^^

This

Good point here!

Lets oust the culprit only, and be done with it.



(BTW, there is still no negative feedback for the culprit)
100 x negative would make quite the change on the profile.

 

[firstson]

He is not saying it is right, not criminal or not dangerous, just that it could cause more problems to guns owners, thats all....

So instead of a criminal investigation we should maybe just wait. Bull#&*t. There was ample time for john1 to recall every fake sold. He it looks like would rather just let it slide and hoped it would just go away. This after ripping off the hard working public. Now it looks like another country's stamp was faked.
John1 mislead everyone from the beginning and took their money with a false advertisement and a fake and dangerous rifle. And some think a criminal investigation isn't warranted. Some need their head pulled out of the sand and take a good look at what happened here , and what could tragically happen with these rifles.
And the Marstar banner still headlines right next to our CGN banner and next to some very good sponsors I have dealt with and had nothing buy excellent service from.

 

[k_h]

He is not saying it is right, not criminal or not dangerous, just that it could cause more problems to guns owners, thats all....

So....

A merchant, normally held in high regard, has sold a product.

With proof marks ( that we on the site know are of questionable authenticity).

Which may kill or maim the unwary gun owner, who's bought in good faith based on the merchant's representation of the product.


And you're worried about 'more problems'.


What bigger problem is there than a gun blowing up in the face of a law abiding owner, who's tried to do everything right?


I find it hard to believe that the RCMP and other government organizations wouldn't be aware of this already. It's undoubtedly on their 'radar'.


Marstar may have done for milsurps what the CGC couldn't, and as others have pointed out, strengthened the case for UN-mandated part marking.

 

[firstson]

Our government, naturally. The community has gotten the word out on these. The authorities could and would not do a better job of that.

We have no friends in Our government. Only opportunists who would use this for their own agenda.

there is a line to be crossed between getting word out on a dangerous rifle and pursuing vendetta against the guy who sold them.

I see guys here who are willing to set everything on fire just to watch one man burn.

That's not a productive attitude.

Right now anyone with even the slightest curiosity to research marstar tipo Garand is going to end up at this thread or, presumably, others like it.

And for the proof house. It's been reported - great. It's up to them to pursue fraud and protect their mark now.

So the words out there on these rifle. Do you think everyone who bought this rifle has seen what is going on with them? How is that person or persons to know if he or she hasn't been online or heard by word of mouth. Since john1 wouldn't recall them. How else do you find out who has one? There is only one way and that's an investigation into who got what, when, and have they all been found. And that's hopefully before an injury occurs.

 

[polaris]

So instead of a criminal investigation we should maybe just wait. Bull#&*t. There was ample time for john1 to recall every fake sold. He it looks like would rather just let it slide and hoped it would just go away. This after ripping off the hard working public. Now it looks like another country's stamp was faked.
John1 mislead everyone from the beginning and took their money with a false advertisement and a fake and dangerous rifle. And some think a criminal investigation isn't warranted. Some need their head pulled out of the sand and take a good look at what happened here , and what could tragically happen with these rifles.
And the Marstar banner still headlines right next to our CGN banner and next to some very good sponsors I have dealt with and had nothing buy excellent service from.

Criminal investigation?

Take a step back and breath through the nose... "you shoot way too fast"! Do you know that 30% of your posts are posted in this thread alone?

And BTW the "Beschussamt Koeln" doesn't stamp the proof mark, they do as other proof houses do, they laser etch the proof mark.

 

[Templar Knight]

So instead of a criminal investigation we should maybe just wait. Bull#&*t. There was ample time for john1 to recall every fake sold. He it looks like would rather just let it slide and hoped it would just go away. This after ripping off the hard working public. Now it looks like another country's stamp was faked.
John1 mislead everyone from the beginning and took their money with a false advertisement and a fake and dangerous rifle. And some think a criminal investigation isn't warranted. Some need their head pulled out of the sand and take a good look at what happened here , and what could tragically happen with these rifles.
And the Marstar banner still headlines right next to our CGN banner and next to some very good sponsors I have dealt with and had nothing buy excellent service from.

It is not letting anything slide . If you bought the rifle and are not happy with it ,then return it to Marstar , and take the hit on return shipping . Word is out there now , and a simple google search by anyone considering buying from Marstar will lead them to this thread . Sadly there is a risk to buying items sight unseen on the internet.....but is it worth throwing the whole firearms community under the bus because of the actions of one person . Word will get around very quickly about these rifles ; and Marstars response....involving L/E will do nothing other than to support the gun grabbers ; and maybe risk losing access to military surplus imports in the future....it is a very slippery slope...

 

[Hitzy]

John caused all this, could have fixed all this, chose to ignore all the safety warnings from gunsmiths in this thread and other people with engineering degrees related to metallurgy. So the authorities or consumer protection agency look into Marstar, big whoop, if he's done nothing wrong other then screw people over on shipping that will come out.
On the other hand, if some kid loses his face, or dies, that affects all gunshops and gunowners, and will bring more heat and regulations then you could imagine. And mark my words, these bolts will fail, and it's not going to take too many rounds.
Lesser of 2 evils.

 

[firstson]

Criminal investigation?

Take a step back and breath through the nose... "you shoot way too fast"! Do you know that 30% of your posts are posted in this thread alone?

And BTW the "Beschussamt Koeln" doesn't stamp the proof mark, they do as other proof houses do, they laser etch the proof mark.

So are you saying i'm wrong with what I've said? Or maybe because I have not been on site long enough I shouldn't say anything. I have been reading on this site since 2004 when my dad became a member. Been taught if it's blatantly wrong get out front of the problem before something worse happens. Yes I have called for john1s head over this fiasco. And yes I think an investigation is warranted, as that seems to be the only way at this time this is going to be rectified. If you have a fix that involves no investigation lets hear it. If you think waiting on john1 to fix this weknow how that has gone.

 

[Hitzy]

Criminal investigation?

Take a step back and breath through the nose... "you shoot way too fast"! Do you know that 30% of your posts are posted in this thread alone?

And BTW the "Beschussamt Koeln" doesn't stamp the proof mark, they do as other proof houses do, they laser etch the proof mark.

I think they replied to the poster that they only stamp proofs. Maybe that's a rifle thing, as I have pistols (Walther uses them) with etched proofs....or maybe they etch aluminum and stamp steel, who knows.

 

[Dyspnea]

John caused all this, could have fixed all this, chose to ignore all the safety warnings from gunsmiths in this thread and other people with engineering degrees related to metallurgy. So the authorities or consumer protection agency look into Marstar, big whoop, if he's done nothing wrong other then screw people over on shipping that will come out.
On the other hand, if some kid loses his face, or dies, that affects all gunshops and gunowners, and will bring more heat and regulations then you could imagine. And mark my words, these bolts will fail, and it's not going to take too many rounds.
Lesser of 2 evils.

Well said!

 

[Hitzy]

He's glued to this thread too.... doesn't stop reading it, but doesn't seem to have the moral backbone to make things right.

 

[FALover]

These rifles are not original T2 that were in storage for many decades. The description on Mastars website are absolutely incorrect. The Italian deliveries of Garands to the Danish Military were all in 30-06. Denmark did not surplus any Garands before the 1990's - and the surplus of the Danish Garands was acutally highly controversial here in Denmark and almost fell through. Any sale/surplus from the Danish Army is well documented. The company that initially purchased the Garands is actually only located 30km from me. Just to end any speculation/further discussion about originality of these rifles - if you encounter a Garand in 308win built on a Danish marked receiver, then it is not military original. These rifles are all COMMERCIAL put together parts guns!

Greetings from DENMARK.

//Kruffe (Danish Licensed Firearms Dealer)

Welcome to the CGN forums! It is to bad we had to meet under such 'interesting' conditions!