T2 Garand - Part 1

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My #### just fell off again after reading this. That's twice in a week! Oh Blasphemy! LOL

tiriaq said:
A lot of the Garands offered for sale in the EE are total bitsers assembled on bargain priced receivers using parts sourced from wherever, with or without reference to gauges, by individuals with unknown skills. Yes, a lot of questions would be a great idea.
Have never heard of one with welded over and ground lugs before though.
There are real problems with this current lot of T2 type rifles.
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bearhunter said:
Why on earth would GT have to take any responsibility for any of this??? Good Grief.

As far as the banner, Marstar has only been charged and found guilty by the consumers on this board. Until they are formally charged and found guilty in a court of law, GT has no grounds to ban his advertising. There is a legal aspect to consider there as well.
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I could go on and on why he should get involved, but I think the logic would escape you based on your post.

There is really one simple thing here:

HE BROKE FORUM RULES.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.
 
situations like this make it harder for great people like zdragunov to sell their high quality home built garands. i still have my 308 garand built by him and she is in perfect spec and shoots like a dream( doesnt like the norinco surplus though)
 
Leaving feedback is pretty low on my list of things to do with these fake T2 rifles.

Not sure what the fixation is with leaving feedback? If I have not ergo I am happy with the transaction that is still in play?
 
klaus enuff said:
Leaving feedback is pretty low on my list of things to do with these fake T2 rifles.

Not sure what the fixation is with leaving feedback? If I have not ergo I am happy with the transaction that is still in play?
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I think it's more about the duty to ensure people who might have no interest in garands see evidence of a retailer's general business practices so they can make informed decisions about who to do business with.
 
Claven2 said:
I think it's more about the duty to ensure people who might have no interest in garands see evidence of a retailer's general business practices so they can make informed decisions about who to do business with.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

Feedback is the only tool at your disposal on this board, use it at least to warn others from fraudulent business practises.
 
Hitzy said:
Oh I don't know, maybe because there was a board long before there were paying dealers buying ad space on CGN? Maybe because dealer fees are pretty substantial, and GT makes a pretty good chunk of change off this little side project that would not exist if it wasn't for the members here?
The board exists because of the members, not the dealers. No members, no dealers willing to pay for ad space.
So yeah, when a dealer screws over members, it would be nice to see the board owner actually do something like ban the offending dealer, or yes reimburse the members as reassurance the that the members mean something, and there are consequences for screwing them over.
Even John if he had an ounce of class would voluntarily pull his ad after this ####show.
Just blows my mind that the site owner doesn't seem to care about this scam on his board, the dealer doesn't care about the customers they lied to and won't reimburse shipping. I guess as Iong as they both make money off the members here nobody gives a #### when something like this happens.
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And by some abstract means of guilt by association GT and CGN are responsible for this fiasco??? That's like suing a news outlet for fraudulent advertising when one of the stations carries misleading political ads.

GT likely has a contract with Marstar. I am willing to bet that when push comes to shove and Marstar has legal actions taken against it that GT will get out of that contract before it happens. Right now, just like any other business or site he is not making any judgements. If it weren't for those banner advertisers this FREE access site would be long gone.

IMHO, GT has done the next best thing. He has allowed the members to spread the word along with accompanying evidence such as pics and descriptions. He hasn't locked the thread nor has he banned anyone even when the posts were more emotional than factual. That's a pretty good stance as far as I'm concerned.
 
bearhunter said:
And by some abstract means of guilt by association GT and CGN are responsible for this fiasco??? That's like suing a news outlet for fraudulent advertising when one of the stations carries misleading political ads.

GT likely has a contract with Marstar. I am willing to bet that when push comes to shove and Marstar has legal actions taken against it that GT will get out of that contract before it happens. Right now, just like any other business or site he is not making any judgements. If it weren't for those banner advertisers this FREE access site would be long gone.

IMHO, GT has done the next best thing. He has allowed the members to spread the word along with accompanying evidence such as pics and descriptions. He hasn't locked the thread nor has he banned anyone even when the posts were more emotional than factual. That's a pretty good stance as far as I'm concerned.
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Well I'd liken it to buying a lemon from a new car dealer and then the dealer and the manufacturer saying "meh.... sounds like a YOU problem, we don't care really, we got your money already".
Keeping the thread open is good, and really should be mandatory until this gets settled to the customers satisfaction.
 
Hitzy said:
Well I'd liken it to buying a lemon from a new car dealer and then the dealer and the manufacturer saying "meh.... sounds like a YOU problem, we don't care really, we got your money already".
Keeping the thread open is good, and really should be mandatory until this gets settled to the customers satisfaction.
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Thats odd logic... using your analogy... GT and CGN are NOT the dealer... they are the folks that rent the 'property/lot' to the dealer where the dealer has chosen to promote his business. Like the people who rent out billboards on the side of the highway!!
 
To be up front, i have never bought from Marstar, or had any dealings with them. Started reading this thread, in a area of the site i never go to, because a member posting on another thread went pink.

Seems to me that three things should be done.

Firstly, the vendor should be pulling the item off their site.

Secondly, the vendor should be directly contacting all affected customers, many of whom seem to be the most vocal posters on this thread. It certainly does not help anyone to deal with this issue so publicly.

Thirdly, the vendor....Marstar/John(s) are pretty crusty in dealing with trivial drama posted about them and their products on this site. Once #2 gets done, there needs to be a statement, explaining from the business's stand point what has happened, and remedies for unhappy people. The silence, might be necessary, but it is certainly fueling a lot of this thread.

The site is really only involved in a very superficial way. IMO, they are handling it correctly; by letting the thread stay open despite the emotion and accusations, and by staying out of everyones business.
 
Claven2 said:
I think it's more about the duty to ensure people who might have no interest in garands see evidence of a retailer's general business practices so they can make informed decisions about who to do business with.
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X3
There should be more negative feedback than the current 3 for something of this magnitude.
I didn't buy one but find it insulting that he didn't post a big warning as soon as he found out about this potentially harmful problem.
That just says low class to me. He will never see my business again.
Safety should never be compromised to make a profit.
 
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