Made in Auschwitz as a selling point???

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k_h said:
Really?

Than the Nazis with their plans and protocols for systematic murder and/or enslavement of the 'inferior' races? Not to mention 'medical experiments'?

I think not.
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Well you thought wrong, Christians have murdered & enslaved pagans, Jews, galiecs, Islam & natives throughout history. Not to mention who else didn't not believe. The crusades, witch hunts, religious wars ect...... What about displacing young natives children from their family's & cilivilizining them. I won't even get into the molestation of children that was ongoing and covered up. Maybe you should read more about Christians and other religions and less about nazi's, Your eyes maybe opened. I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and don't care for what they did but all of humankind is guilty of atrocities, and still happening today with organizations like Isis, al quaeda ect........
 
To the seller defense he does say in his listing that it was told to him and he cannot prove it... i dont see it as pushing it as a selling point.
A lot of German stuff were made or maintained by prisoners.
That being said i do own a 1939 K98 with swastikas... and i must say it feels kinda weird holding it... but that's just me.
I have a M1911 leather holster that the seller told me belonged to a member of the Devils Brigade (not the reason i bought it though)... i can't prove it or have no provenance but if i was to ever sell it (not likely) i would pass this information along to the next owner... he might be interested in knowing it was a possibility.

I do however agree with SIGRUNES about the pics. If you are selling something at a premium (or any price for that matter) i think you should include pictures and take the time to answer any questions.
In this day and age i dont see any reasons not to do so... if you dont know how just ask a member or a moderator and they will be happy to help.
In my opinion pictures should be obligated in the EE... after all it is a proof you have the item in question.
 
live4therut said:
Well you thought wrong, Christians have murdered & enslaved pagans, Jews, galiecs, Islam & natives throughout history. Not to mention who else didn't not believe. The crusades, witch hunts, religious wars ect...... What about displacing young natives children from their family's & cilivilizining them. I won't even get into the molestation of children that was ongoing and covered up. Maybe you should read more about Christians and other religions and less about nazi's, Your eyes maybe opened. I'm not a Nazi sympathizer and don't care for what they did but all of humankind is guilty of atrocities, and still happening today with organizations like Isis, al quaeda ect........
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Don't buy it.

The Nazis were a special kind of evil.

Nuff said.
 
k_h said:
Don't buy it.

The Nazis were a special kind of evil.

Nuff said.
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So are child molesters, crucifiers and people who burn other at the stake for their beliefs. Getting off track but if you believe the Nazis were the only special evil people, your wrong. Most soldiers were just normal people who wanted no part but didn't want themselves or families to be killed for treason.
 
cantom said:
No problem with any of CanadianAR except for him saying the pouch was from Auschwitz. That did bother me.

I don't mean people should only own helmets with bullet holes in them...haha.

But given a choice, I take the Canadian/British/Commonwealth/US side. After all, our whole country mobilized to fight the Axis powers.

.303's my calibre....not 8mm.
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I didn't mean to say the pouch was from there. It actually is not from there. Just agreeing that some research would easily
Prove it isn't from that camp. And I personally DO agree, I don't think a camp connection is a selling feature for me.
 
The BNZ steyr rifles are the only rifles of the 98k series with a single S rune denoting that the rifle was made under SS guard supervision. This information is from the 5th edition of mauser military rifle of the world.

I been into mauser rifles for a very long time and personally I do not believe the BNZ rifles made under the SS guards are worth more than an comparable BYF of the same configuration. Really all 98ks made from mid to late war would have used some kind of forced labor some where in the manufacturing process so from that prospective the BNZ is not unique. Also not to mention there are a huge amount of fraudulent rifles bearing those markings and some of them were forged with the original factory stamps making identifying fakes almost impossible in some cases. The price increase associated with SS markings are also inconsistent and they tend to be on the high side I have seen some SS marked rifles selling up to 2-3 times the price of a non SS marked rifle in the same condition and era.

Proving the validity of these "SS" rifles can be pretty difficult and the price increase is inconsistent and irrational. I personally will always stay away from them and its definitely a case of buyer beware
 
rifleman1377 said:
The BNZ steyr rifles are the only rifles of the 98k series with a single S rune denoting that the rifle was made under SS guard supervision. This information is from the 5th edition of mauser military rifle of the world.

I been into mauser rifles for a very long time and personally I do not believe the BNZ rifles made under the SS guards are worth more than an comparable BYF of the same configuration. Really all 98ks made from mid to late war would have used some kind of forced labor some where in the manufacturing process so from that prospective the BNZ is not unique. Also not to mention there are a huge amount of fraudulent rifles bearing those markings and some of them were forged with the original factory stamps making identifying fakes almost impossible in some cases. The price increase associated with SS markings are also inconsistent and they tend to be on the high side I have seen some SS marked rifles selling up to 2-3 times the price of a non SS marked rifle in the same condition and era.

Proving the validity of these "SS" rifles can be pretty difficult and the price increase is inconsistent and irrational. I personally will always stay away from them and its definitely a case of buyer beware
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The single rune rifles are made for the SS. They used slave labor as did Gustloff.
And likely most others.
There are several other types of SS rifles. But all this denotes is that they were made for the SS and went into their supply chain. A rune doesn't mean the gun was used by a camp guard. Could have went to the front. Also labor camps are different then death camps.
There are actually documented accounts of labourers at steyr being treated better then average with extra food, clothes, smokes etc.
 
rifleman1377 said:
The BNZ steyr rifles are the only rifles of the 98k series with a single S rune denoting that the rifle was made under SS guard supervision. This information is from the 5th edition of mauser military rifle of the world.

I been into mauser rifles for a very long time and personally I do not believe the BNZ rifles made under the SS guards are worth more than an comparable BYF of the same configuration. Really all 98ks made from mid to late war would have used some kind of forced labor some where in the manufacturing process so from that prospective the BNZ is not unique. Also not to mention there are a huge amount of fraudulent rifles bearing those markings and some of them were forged with the original factory stamps making identifying fakes almost impossible in some cases. The price increase associated with SS markings are also inconsistent and they tend to be on the high side I have seen some SS marked rifles selling up to 2-3 times the price of a non SS marked rifle in the same condition and era.

Proving the validity of these "SS" rifles can be pretty difficult and the price increase is inconsistent and irrational. I personally will always stay away from them and its definitely a case of buyer beware
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If you're into K98k, you should get the new books by Karem and Steves. Excellent books with all the most recent info.
 
What made them "special" was the fact that it was state policy to eradicate the Jews and other "untermenschen". Even in the final months of the war, the trains were rolling into the death camps. I married a German girl while I was over there. I asked if they knew what was going on. Answer - "Of course we did, but it was worth your while not to know.", alluding to the SS and Gestapo.

Genocide as state policy is more common than most think. Every Empire has practiced it to eradicate opposition or to acquire land and resources. Just saw a doc on TV re: the German policy of concentration camps and genocide in Africa. They wrote the book on it in WW I and Hitler added some new chapters.

The Brits put Boer women and kids into concentration camps where many of them died due to inadequate food, shelter and medical care. The Turks tried to wipe out the Armenians in 1915. You don't have to look very hard to find other examples going back to Roman times.


live4therut said:
So are child molesters, crucifiers and people who burn other at the stake for their beliefs. Getting off track but if you believe the Nazis were the only special evil people, your wrong. Most soldiers were just normal people who wanted no part but didn't want themselves or families to be killed for treason.
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Frankly I would consider that a selling point. I have a K98 that was most likely made by concentration camp labour, it's something some people consider important in the history of things, but to others they won't touch it with a 10-foot pole. As dark as the history of that time is, it is still history, and it is still important. I'm actually rather bummed that most of the swastikas/Nazi markings on my K98 were stamped out in east Germany when it was surplussed, not because I'm a neo-Nazi (I want to make it explicitly clear I am not a neo-Nazi), but because it adds to the historical value of the firearm. To some people, if something can be identified as being made by essentially slave labour in the camps, it does add collector's value. I know it would for me.

I do find it a bit odd, though, that so many people get so outraged at things made by Jewish slave labour during the war, to the point of boycotting it, but couldn't care less about the clothes they wear being made by child/slave labour in Africa/the Middle East or the electronics they use being made by child/slave labour in China. Arguably Mao was worse than Hitler, yet we support China's economy and inhumane working conditions massively while decrying things made by the Nazis using Jewish labour. It just seems a little hypocritical to me.
 
I do collect ss rifles and I do pay a premium for them.

I don't collect them because I imagine a prisoner building it but rather because collecting can take you down strange roads and you have to collect what interests you... Whatever the reason.

Its documented that prisoners were generally used for assembly and not actually "building" components. Even Gustloff was primarily an assembler with the exceptions of some barrels and stocks.

Most historians generally disregard prisoner claims of sabotage as false. Punishment was too harsh, inspections too thorough and the unlikelihood that they were even involved on a process in which they could sabotage.
 
Well op I have a story for you

I once worked as a volunteer in a military museum , me and the curator got along great

One day we are talking about similar subjects and wtf did people bring back home the stuff they did
One guy donated at the end of the war a bag of clothes from auswitch , the curator told me he wish he could get rid of but it was not the " right thing to do"

I agree , just like I made it a point to go to dachau on my trip to Germany .... Sure you could destroy everything but would that make it disappear ? Never happen again?

I think the seller was telling the story ..... We all need to hear it .
 
guess if we're really concerned about this, better not buy Soviet either, those weapons were used to murder and enslave their own people in much larger numbers than Hitler ever did.

Grizz
 
CanadianAR said:
Rawanda, former Yugoslavia, Russia, and the church all systematically categorized and killed people. By the millions.
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This! More millions were slaughtered by Russian commies than by Nazies, yet almost every gun owner I'm Canada has firearm with star or hammer and sickle.
If one gets too spooky about dark past of milsurplus then one needs to collect something else. Blaming the seller for using labour camp as selling point is reality denial, like we or not but some things are more expensive or sought after than other.
 
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