Made in Auschwitz as a selling point???
- Thread starter cantom
- Start date
- Status
Yes; it is likely a tad morbid, the higher values placed on a rifle from an 'Evil Empire'
Perhaps because they command more value than a battle rifle from the Allied forces.
Somewhat akin to folks rubber necking a bad accident or reading of serial killers in the news. Sometimes a part of our phsyce is fascinated by the 'Dark Side'.
I would warrant that someone who was there and saw the atrocities would not want a Waffenampt'd rifle.
The rest of us spectators would pick it up and struggle to understand "Why it exists...how did it happen?"
It doesn't necessarily mean we celebrate it, it can also mean that we acknowledge it. And perhaps the fact that it has a certain ' Intangible extra weight ' isn't a bad thing. It can also mean that we understand that it is a piece ' Dark history ' which shouldn't be allowed again.
The question is...where do you draw the line? Battle rifle is OK...concentration camp piece isn't?
Of course then there are dyckheads who want a bar of soap or a lampshade.
I find the whole concept to be...puzzling, to say the least.
But we have to acknowledge there is a reason why Waffenampt'd pieces command more money...just which reason? Because we strive understand the concept of such evil...or because ( hopefully no-one here ) we celebrate it?
And while I don't pretend to understand it, I do acknowledge that the ' Intangible Extra Weight '...it is there, IMO.
Very puzzling indeed.
Perhaps because they command more value than a battle rifle from the Allied forces.
Somewhat akin to folks rubber necking a bad accident or reading of serial killers in the news. Sometimes a part of our phsyce is fascinated by the 'Dark Side'.
I would warrant that someone who was there and saw the atrocities would not want a Waffenampt'd rifle.
The rest of us spectators would pick it up and struggle to understand "Why it exists...how did it happen?"
It doesn't necessarily mean we celebrate it, it can also mean that we acknowledge it. And perhaps the fact that it has a certain ' Intangible extra weight ' isn't a bad thing. It can also mean that we understand that it is a piece ' Dark history ' which shouldn't be allowed again.
The question is...where do you draw the line? Battle rifle is OK...concentration camp piece isn't?
Of course then there are dyckheads who want a bar of soap or a lampshade.
I find the whole concept to be...puzzling, to say the least.
But we have to acknowledge there is a reason why Waffenampt'd pieces command more money...just which reason? Because we strive understand the concept of such evil...or because ( hopefully no-one here ) we celebrate it?
And while I don't pretend to understand it, I do acknowledge that the ' Intangible Extra Weight '...it is there, IMO.
Very puzzling indeed.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I can understand the facination with ww2 and Nazi Germany, I have German relations on my fathers side and hold both a Canadian and German passport. Hell I have a few cousins on that side of the family that fought in the war, as do most people with a German background. One was a medic, the other was a pilot in the Luftwaffe.
Do I collect Nazi memorabilia? No. Do I have a problem with people collecting it? No. It's a time that shouldn't be lost and forgotten, I'm equally intrigued by the Russian surplus side of the coin, my Opa was taken away by the Russians and worked to death in a Siberian labour camp. It is what it is, not a pretty time in history but it needs to be remembered for whatever reason you choose to remember it.
Do I collect Nazi memorabilia? No. Do I have a problem with people collecting it? No. It's a time that shouldn't be lost and forgotten, I'm equally intrigued by the Russian surplus side of the coin, my Opa was taken away by the Russians and worked to death in a Siberian labour camp. It is what it is, not a pretty time in history but it needs to be remembered for whatever reason you choose to remember it.
You also have to take into account how a lot of these things arrived in our land (swatika covered merchandise). It was brought back with the men/ women who were there! It's a part of history, people's family history, I inheirited a bunch of nazi items which I show people, from my wife's family because no one wanted them, brought back by a Canadian airman who was there. I explain to people I keep them not only to remember the man behind them, but the history of the time, and also for some reason that airman thought they were important enough to bring home with him! Don't forget that, not all was brought by soldiers but I'm sure most of it was
Also, humans have been killing each other for years. I'm not denying what hitler did was wrong, nor what the British did to the boers, or the Turks to the Armenians, or the Russians to the Hungarians, cheqs, and whoever else PO'd Stalin, but to regulate a piece of history to obscurity will only result in the rise of something similar happening again. This I'm not so sure of though because as we move forward it seems to still be happening with no definite change (slavary, child labour, wars in the name of religion, displacing people to aquire more lands) some of it not largely reported on. Anyway, thanks for reading this, sorry if it went off topic and thanks to the op for starting this thread it's been intresting
Also, humans have been killing each other for years. I'm not denying what hitler did was wrong, nor what the British did to the boers, or the Turks to the Armenians, or the Russians to the Hungarians, cheqs, and whoever else PO'd Stalin, but to regulate a piece of history to obscurity will only result in the rise of something similar happening again. This I'm not so sure of though because as we move forward it seems to still be happening with no definite change (slavary, child labour, wars in the name of religion, displacing people to aquire more lands) some of it not largely reported on. Anyway, thanks for reading this, sorry if it went off topic and thanks to the op for starting this thread it's been intresting
I think you might be a little too emotionally involved with objects... This is history we are talking about. Also the weapons of your enemies have held a special symbolical significance since the dawn of humanity... MUH NAZEES doesn't make that different
I've seen pieces of the rope that was allegedly used to hang Louis Riel, one in the rcmp Depot Museum in Regina. Also a rifle casing from the firing squad (his request) execution of an American nut bar a couple of decades ago. I find these items a little too grisly for my taste.
I understand that there is a market for lampshades and other items made of human skin from concentration camp victims. This is over the top macabre.
I understand that there is a market for lampshades and other items made of human skin from concentration camp victims. This is over the top macabre.
Cantom - glad you posted this, it's something that's good to be discussed, and something I've addressed at an academic level on several occasions, so feel that I'm at least able to contribute a little to the discussion.
History is something to be understood. Items with historical lineage are more interesting because you can place that item at a location or point in time. Having items from the past connects you to the event. I don't approve of anything the Nazi's stood for or did, but having items produced and used in the Second World War, same as the Great War is important to me, regardless of which side they belong to, because they are a direct connection to the past.
It seems a lot of people have a hard time separating recognition of the past with admiration of it. In many ways something physically from a period/place in time is a lot more telling than any book can be, and often makes one's knowledge of the time a lot more real, or factual, than if one is trying to imagine it.
If the seller is using Auschwitz provenance as a selling point but has no way to back it up, then it's a bit bad taste. If he wants to use that as a selling point he should provide evidence, at which point it becomes a fact. Whether it is ok to profit from something like this is open to debate. On the one hand practically everything in our society has a value, and rarer or more emotionally loaded items command a higher price. On the other hand there is a moral point at which profiting becomes reprehensible. Like with most things, there is no defined line, just a gradient, and where that gradient lays is different for different people.
So, in conclusion I understand that people have strong reactions to things like symbols or terrible events. However, it is my feeling that letting those feelings force you to completely ignore or suppress all knowledge or connection of those events and utterly cut any association with them does the people involved more disservice than remembering and acknowledging them in a respectful manner. I feel that without providing proof of provenance, this ad fails to do so, but is most likely not done with any intent to harm.
History is something to be understood. Items with historical lineage are more interesting because you can place that item at a location or point in time. Having items from the past connects you to the event. I don't approve of anything the Nazi's stood for or did, but having items produced and used in the Second World War, same as the Great War is important to me, regardless of which side they belong to, because they are a direct connection to the past.
It seems a lot of people have a hard time separating recognition of the past with admiration of it. In many ways something physically from a period/place in time is a lot more telling than any book can be, and often makes one's knowledge of the time a lot more real, or factual, than if one is trying to imagine it.
If the seller is using Auschwitz provenance as a selling point but has no way to back it up, then it's a bit bad taste. If he wants to use that as a selling point he should provide evidence, at which point it becomes a fact. Whether it is ok to profit from something like this is open to debate. On the one hand practically everything in our society has a value, and rarer or more emotionally loaded items command a higher price. On the other hand there is a moral point at which profiting becomes reprehensible. Like with most things, there is no defined line, just a gradient, and where that gradient lays is different for different people.
So, in conclusion I understand that people have strong reactions to things like symbols or terrible events. However, it is my feeling that letting those feelings force you to completely ignore or suppress all knowledge or connection of those events and utterly cut any association with them does the people involved more disservice than remembering and acknowledging them in a respectful manner. I feel that without providing proof of provenance, this ad fails to do so, but is most likely not done with any intent to harm.
You probably do. The lamp existed but it was made of leather. How it started is that the American army made a display of the barbary of the camps for the benefit of the local citizens (as seen in Band of Brothers).
The display included a leather lamp supposedly made from human skin to show the atrocities they were capable of (apparently piles of bodies wasn't good enough).
It didn't take long for the truth to come out but the impact of the story lives on, as do all urban legends.
This kind of exaggeration from the authorities is what feeds the holocaust deniers to this day.
The display included a leather lamp supposedly made from human skin to show the atrocities they were capable of (apparently piles of bodies wasn't good enough).
It didn't take long for the truth to come out but the impact of the story lives on, as do all urban legends.
This kind of exaggeration from the authorities is what feeds the holocaust deniers to this day.
The B1tch of Buchenwald https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...KQKDl9WLSnDJCySGQ&sig2=WHWmvBPnDLdUU2jfmWoqOA was convicted of having ordered the tattooing of individuals who had a skin tone that she felt would best reflect the making into of "leather" product...much more that just a lamp shade...lamp shades (ect.) that have tattooed designs/patterns! 
A truly evil individual, and one of many truly evil individuals.
@OP; the poster of the WTS just seems like an a$$hole in the way he describes what he has for sale, so on that basis alone I wouldn't go near him with a 10' pole but you have raised another issue.
While i understand collectors, there are just some items that much like the aforementioned individual, i won't go near with a 10' pole. Nazi stuff, Samurai swords and anything that I am aware has caused nothing but pain and suffering for others. YMMV, and that's fine. But for me, I just don't want it in my house...it's dirty somehow. And it can never be cleansed.
A truly evil individual, and one of many truly evil individuals.@OP; the poster of the WTS just seems like an a$$hole in the way he describes what he has for sale, so on that basis alone I wouldn't go near him with a 10' pole but you have raised another issue.
While i understand collectors, there are just some items that much like the aforementioned individual, i won't go near with a 10' pole. Nazi stuff, Samurai swords and anything that I am aware has caused nothing but pain and suffering for others. YMMV, and that's fine. But for me, I just don't want it in my house...it's dirty somehow. And it can never be cleansed.
- Status
