IPSC RULES question 'Gear Distance'
- Thread starter Avenida
- Start date
So by the same logic, you must feel that everyone driving 101 km/hr or more in a 100 km/hr zone should be stopped by the police & ticketed..... n'est ce pas?
Nice tangent. Not even apples to oranges.
Try again.
Blade-Tech holsters are made to specs for the production class. With the drop down, the grip is in perfect alignment with your belt, which is EXACTLY 50 mm. Measuring at an angle will increase the projection and it WILL be over (depending how fat you are). Your belt line is considered your torso if that is where your grip lines up. The problem is that the rules to this are not precise and causes a lot of errors with regards to the term 'torso'. The line from your grip to the torso, should be at 0 degrees, no elevation, and should measure no more than 50mm. If the grip is in perfect alignment with your belt, then that is the distance, you do NOT angle it up.
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As a happy user, importer and reseller of that product - I can tell you straight out that is not the case.
Bladetech makes great holsters, but they are not specifically made for IPSC production division.
They most often can be used in the IPSC division, but that's a big difference.
For some people of different shapes; they're going to need to be modified in order to comply.
And you measure from your torso - not your belt. Hence the two threads of fighting & complaining over this...
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I disagree, as the definition of 'torso' is the body part in between your limbs, where the beltline lies in. The distance has to be a staight line from the Center of your grip to your torso. It says nothing about belt or shirts or pants that are in between that distance. It has to be a straight line!
DEFINITION OF TORSO
1. torso - the body excluding the head and neck and limbs; "they moved their arms and legs and bodies" trunk, body.
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Hmmm: who am I going to believe. The Regional Director of IPSC Canada (that's Sean aka "Freedom Ventures") or some random guy from the internet that I don' t know (aka: abb1).
Here's my advice: if you're going to shoot an IPSC match: listen to the most experienced IPSC people you can find.
-ivan-
I was not aware that he was the regional director of IPSC. It is definitely something that should be looked into further with the organization as this will always be a grey area where at one time it is good and another it is not. It also will let someone that is 75 lbs overweight wear a piece of equipment that a slim person cannot. That is not fair, and the rules in this case should be more consistent so that they would apply to everyone.
I am by far an expert, I just read the data in front of me and I know what torso means, so it is easy to understand the wording in this context. Most people think that your torso is between your belly button and neck. That is NOT the case, so even if the rules are the way that the director says, it does not make sense as per wording of the rules in question. Like I said, something has to change so that this is clear. Either change the wording or remove this stupid rule altogether. My 2 cents!
I am by far an expert, I just read the data in front of me and I know what torso means, so it is easy to understand the wording in this context. Most people think that your torso is between your belly button and neck. That is NOT the case, so even if the rules are the way that the director says, it does not make sense as per wording of the rules in question. Like I said, something has to change so that this is clear. Either change the wording or remove this stupid rule altogether. My 2 cents!
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How is it not fair and how is it not consistent? It must measure 50mm from torso to center of grip. Pretty straight forward, fair and consistent if you ask me. If you were to make it 50mm from the belt, now that would not be fair, a thin competitor would end up with a gap between his body and gun you can drive a truck thru, and a large competitor could have the butt of his gun embedded in his love handles.
Think of it this way, not everyone can wear the same size clothes so they buy clothes that fit their particular body type.
I actually contacted IPSC to get a clear answer, and IPSC rules are that the measurements ARE taken over the belt making this a problem for certain holsters. I guess USPSA the grip is measured to the belt, but not in IPSC. They say that this was in effect for 40 years, but never was an issue until the Blade Tech DOH holster came around. Oh well, it is what it is!
In USPSA its from the inside of the belt where it touches the body but its to the closest point of the grip instead of the center of the grip.
It is _not_ fair because the exact same equipment is illegal to another person of a different body type; but I do understand your point.
Since there is already specification of non-organic matters, ie: equipment.
I think we need to start addressing the specification of the organic matter, ie: competitors.
I think the body type of the competitor should also be specified so that we don't have competitors that are too fat or too thin to put everyone on equal footing.
And to provide maximum and minimum specification of allowable love handles to spill over the belt.
There is already specification of the hip bone and belt placement on the body for men and women, why is there no love handle sub section?
While were at it lets make some more rules that if you wear boots they can only be size 13 and sneakers can only be size 5, women must wear 30" belt and pants and men must wear 40" belt and pants and the equipment on your belt cant be more than 12" from the center of your back regardless if your waist is 26" or 56 ". Better yet lets keep it at the hip bone and allow a gap of 50mm between the body and the center of the grip and everyone can just by gear that fits their body type the same as they do with their shirts, shorts and shoes.
This is the very core of this rule's issue, isn't it?
If the rule is 50mm from the belt, those with love handle will find that their reach is impeded.
But if it's 50mm to the body, the slim-profiled will not be able to use the exact equipment worn by those with love handles. Even tho the holster and the grip sits within the 50mm from the belt rule.
Im saying the rule when based on the body figure is a flawed standard. And therefore must pemit for the variable in the individual's figure.
Isn't there a precedent already with the rules on waist vs hip?
If the rule is 50mm from the belt, those with love handle will find that their reach is impeded.
But if it's 50mm to the body, the slim-profiled will not be able to use the exact equipment worn by those with love handles. Even tho the holster and the grip sits within the 50mm from the belt rule.
Im saying the rule when based on the body figure is a flawed standard. And therefore must pemit for the variable in the individual's figure.
Isn't there a precedent already with the rules on waist vs hip?
Here is the thing: There is no 50mm from the belt rule.
How is it flawed? Everyone is allowed 50mm between body and grip.
Simply put. Buy gear that fits or play a different game. I hear checkers is pretty lenient as to what gear you can wear while playing.
