IRG Colt Le6933 with KAC accessories or colt Canada 11.6mrr

Zeroed-In said:
Come on Creamy just having a little fun, I thought you had a thicker skin?



Regarding anything constructive towards the original intent of this thread, I offered that up to the OP long ago.

As is the state of this thread now, I at least know when to stay on the side lines as I have not had any operational experience with a C8IUR (my only official CC experience, if you can call it that is using a C7A1 in our Army Reserves) nor do I disagree with those known to have a vast knowledge on such subjects; i.e.. Epoxy7 & Greentips on all things AR...

Cheers D
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I have thick skin. But band wagon jumping based on perceived knowledge base is annoying. Bad for my old blood pressure.

I'm am sorry for my hasty snap, and I've solved future issues with the ignore button.

OP the best advice I can give is get a standard AR, as light as you can get it, in the 12-16 inch lengths (if you prefer the far grip an 18 or 20 is also good). This will provide you with the most fun factor. Even a DPMS 599 US Oracle will do anything you really need. And it will do it reliably.
 
CreamySmooth said:
Even a DPMS 599 US Oracle will do anything you really need. And it will do it reliably.
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Lol. Come on seriously.

Seems a lot of you guys need to hit the gym. The IUR and other Colt Canada offerings are fine.
Some of the prices are a little high i would say for made in Canada locally. But their worth every penny.

CS. I see you are putting your preference above what others want or need and thats fine. But you are going overboard on the final conclussion.

It comes down to what your civilian criteria of use is ?

Also remember most ARs are modular like lego.

If all you want is a competition based AR for range use then thats what you should get. If you wants something to fit most uses then be ready to sacrifice in some areas.

Their is too much BS you can put into your criteria of what you think you need. And that can matter in regards to a new shooter that can't hike a mile in the bush to someone that will go to the range once every 2 years.

In the end starting with a Colt is the best thing you can do with availability right now.


Sorry typing from iphone.
 
CreamySmooth said:
I have thick skin. But band wagon jumping based on perceived knowledge base is annoying. Bad for my old blood pressure.

I'm am sorry for my hasty snap, and I've solved future issues with the ignore button.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted and I hope you can ignore the ignore button.;)

Nothing perceived about Epoxy7 & Greentips knowledge base regarding AR's. I've been around long enough and know just enough to recognize CGN members who really know what's what when discussing AR's, so when these members speak I listen, (Matt K is in that category too, among others).

Cheers D
 
Well I certainly can't or don't want to debate every little detail on the forum. A major benefit of an AR platform is the parts availability and standard maintenance. So if yo're choosing to go proprietary AR I'm hoping the pros and cons weigh out for you. I chose the XCR's because of their NR status, easy maintenance and parts availability and modularity for my needs. The fact that it's design is proprietary to RA isn't that big of a concern, but I certainly thought about it. No different then any other manufacture that has their own designs - they're all proprietary with commonalities.

In regards to balance, if you're talking NR version, yes you're right. If you're talking the mini and short barreled, that is we're we'll disagree. If you're talking the older quad rails, yup, bulky in the mini too, but not the keymods they're trim and let you mount what you need where you need it.

XCR does have a monolithic upper, by design from the get go, and it makes sense for the platform and design. Having a continuous flat top does make mounting various optics easier and reduce complexity. (that is until you get into different barrel lengths and gas systems, with standard and low profile gas blocks, as an example with the new extended fore-ends).

By saying I don't care about the other points, I suppose I miss spoke. I didn't want to participate in pissing contests, lots of good points were made. I also think that a few comments were talking right past one another by not getting the main points.

All functional needs will differ and dictate how a particular platform or carbine is setup and how it's fit for presuppose / person. My points on the LE6933 vs the MRR stand, as my preference .. now the why part I haven't delved into much. So for that I'll say 'utility, cost, proprietary parts?' considered, my personal choice would be the LE6933.

Epoxy7 said:
That's interesting. The XCR-L and it's heavy barreled versions are monolithic platforms. I think you'll find it bulkier and heavier and with poorer balance than the rifles you sold. Plus nowhere near the accuracy potential. Reliability might also be a concern. Also it doesn't get anymore "proprietary in nature" than the XCR system. A bit odd that the very aspects you don't like with those AR rifles are the very features of the XCR that you are interested in.

I'm sorry to hear you don't care about the other points being made. There's some good information there. Might be worth taking another look before you embark on the propriety monolithic XCR platform! :popCorn:
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I know we disagree on the XCR for various reasons, or at least I assume from various postings on different threads. My considerations are for both recreational shooting and combat rifle - no experience here, call me a wanna be week-end warrior. Study, learn and practice, but operator I'm not.

The comments or points I said ' I don't care about ' were directed towards my perception of pissing contests, not the value add. Points noted in your post below, and agreed.

Zeroed-In said:
Just as you do no care regarding "other points made" some here (myself included) will not take a liking to the thought of investing several thousand dollars into a XCR of any flavour.
Saying that I do believe we all add to the conversation even when we disagree. As your post above offers up several different concerns on the subject of firearms/AR's; such as weight, balance, design, proprietary nature etc. there are endless AR considerations of which we all have our favourite wants and needs...

Often times we as recreational shooters (not all, but most?) do not consider the needs or design parameters that a duty rifle or combat rifle must be considered for.

From full auto. fire to a service life of tens of thousands of rounds these are just a couple parameters that will need be considered in such a rifle. Weight or maneuverability may not be the first choices in a design as reliability to digest service ammo. while maintaining accuracy under rapid and sustained fire may take priority; which may never be considered in a commercially sold rifle.

What I get from our conversation and all points of view made, is an opportunity to learn and develop my own parameters of what is important for my needs in an AR/Black rifle and for that I thank all involved as it's appreciated.

Cheers D
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xdmer said:
I know we disagree on the XCR for various reasons, or at least I assume from various postings on different threads. My considerations are for both recreational shooting and combat rifle - no experience here, call me a wanna be week-end warrior. Study, learn and practice, but operator I'm not.

The comments or points I said ' I don't care about ' were directed towards my perception of pissing contests, not the value add. Points noted in your post below, and agreed.
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It's all good Xdmer and thanks for clarifying your position. Nothing wrong with being a Week-end Warrior as that would most likely constitute a vast many here in the Black Rifles section where few are working for a living carrying an AR.

We can agree to dis-agree regarding the XCR platform as it does have a following among many here on CGN that like them, just as many like myself do not; or at least do not like certain aspects enough to keep us interested (certain flaws can just not be overlooked for some of us).
Like all things the XCR has it's place, it's just that we are hit hard with our NR Black Rifle choices cost wise, however that's not a singularly XCR phenomenon as most all NR Black Rifles suffer from our excessive Canadian Non-Restricted Black Rifle tax and are overpriced for the quality you get.

While perhaps this thread was getting a little more in depth then first requested from the OP, your input was helpful and made sense looking at it from your perspective; which is something we all need to do a little more often. This aspect is important so that we can not only understand each others point of view, buy also to understand our own choices and why they are what they are as priorities can and do change over time...

Cheers D
 
Stoner99 said:
Lol. Come on seriously.

Seems a lot of you guys need to hit the gym. The IUR and other Colt Canada offerings are fine.
Some of the prices are a little high i would say for made in Canada locally. But their worth every penny.

CS. I see you are putting your preference above what others want or need and thats fine. But you are going overboard on the final conclussion.

It comes down to what your civilian criteria of use is ?

Also remember most ARs are modular like lego.

If all you want is a competition based AR for range use then thats what you should get. If you wants something to fit most uses then be ready to sacrifice in some areas.

Their is too much BS you can put into your criteria of what you think you need. And that can matter in regards to a new shooter that can't hike a mile in the bush to someone that will go to the range once every 2 years.

In the end starting with a Colt is the best thing you can do with availability right now.


Sorry typing from iphone.
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DPMS! Snicker! Must be a joke recommendation he made?

The opinion that the C8IUR is too heavy isn't the view by those who are qualified users. I can see how someone spending too much time behind a desk and only trying one out a few times would be quick to criticize. In reality it's not an issue. I suspect it's more based on lack of training with the carbine which could understandable lead one to jump to a quick decision. Add in some nostalgia with remembering the firearms of the good old days along with decreased physical ability and well a much different opinion than those fielding the carbine could easily be formed. Yes I understand where this comes from but reiterate that this isn't the opinion of the carbine on the front lines where it's deployed.

Xdmer, With regards to the XCR, I would also look at the ACR and Tavor before making a decision.

On iPhone as well.
 
I've seen reports of many people going straight to the ACR and looking past XCR due to accuracy. I've also heard that it's even more nose heavy than the XCR... I do find it disappointing that the ACR never got the support it deserve while it was still the Masada, accessory support, caliber conversions etc..

Bullpups have a different manual of arms compared to the others that have been discussed. However, if your looking for a full length barrel in compact package and don't care about caliber conversions etc.. Tavor all the way, I'm not aware of other quality bullpups we can have - I had a t97 and wouldn't dare bring it up with any seriousness, and I've owned Keltec in the past .. not going there either.
 
xdmer said:
I've seen reports of many people going straight to the ACR and looking past XCR due to accuracy. I've also heard that it's even more nose heavy than the XCR... I do find it disappointing that the ACR never got the support it deserve while it was still the Masada, accessory support, caliber conversions etc..

Bullpups have a different manual of arms compared to the others that have been discussed. However, if your looking for a full length barrel in compact package and don't care about caliber conversions etc.. Tavor all the way, I'm not aware of other quality bullpups we can have - I had a t97 and wouldn't dare bring it up with any seriousness, and I've owned Keltec in the past .. not going there either.
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a NR ACR is balanced a finger width in front of the magwell
i know this well... because I own one and I looked for the balance point
 
Stoner99 said:
Lol. Come on seriously.

Seems a lot of you guys need to hit the gym. The IUR and other Colt Canada offerings are fine.
Some of the prices are a little high i would say for made in Canada locally. But their worth every penny.

CS. I see you are putting your preference above what others want or need and thats fine. But you are going overboard on the final conclussion.

It comes down to what your civilian criteria of use is ?

Also remember most ARs are modular like lego.

If all you want is a competition based AR for range use then thats what you should get. If you wants something to fit most uses then be ready to sacrifice in some areas.

Their is too much BS you can put into your criteria of what you think you need. And that can matter in regards to a new shooter that can't hike a mile in the bush to someone that will go to the range once every 2 years.

In the end starting with a Colt is the best thing you can do with availability right now.


Sorry typing from iphone.
Click to expand...

I mentioned the Oracle as a rifle that will basically do anything a guy needs. They don't fail and are well made. ARs are so common that even the Chinese models will do anything you NEED. Like you said... Like LEGO. Want is different. The 6933 would be anything you'd WANT unless you didn't want to be able to add and change out foreshocks and barrels etc... Then an IUR is your pie.

And of course I put my preference in. Just like every Colt Canada fanboy here did.

Look, im gonna put this out there for guys to think about. The AR is now nothing special in RCMP use. Being qualified to use it from a 1 week course makes you more or less as qualified as every other RCMP member out there. There's no special technical classes, and there's no knowledge transfer about why the gun is better than any other. It's not in the syllabus. In the end it gives you basic knowledge for a weapon type. You may have more interest personally, but no more knowledge is transferred than to the guy or girl who is only there cause he has to be. What's important is when these people, who have had a 1 week course, begin to tell you that thier issued weapon system is the best one. That's living with blinders on. I can say that those who have had the same training, when they have other opinions... Those are usually the more significant opinions. The ones that question, bring far more to the table, than the obedient followers.

Further, to get things out of the way, because I guess people still haven't figured it, I'm as qualified as anyone else here in regard to the rifles in question. I have a big mouth, I agree, and wanting good spirited debate is a love of mine. I will admit to a difficulty in taking someone seriously who probably has only ever chased wildlife through the bush with a weapon system getting high and mighty.

Seriously OP... Get the 6933 or the IUR. Whatever strikes you. You've definitely had the debate to parse.
 
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As Stoner99 has stated what are your credentials?

CreamySmooth said:
Further, to get things out of the way, because I guess people still haven't figured it, I'm as qualified as anyone else here in regard to the rifles in question. I have a big mouth
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As I find it hard to believe you actually have similar experience to any/all CGN members (as individuals) regarding these rifles in question. Perhaps not everyone as I believe there is at least one member who is working for and was/is involved with the actual manufacturer regarding the development of the C8IUR/MRR...

Saying all that, your final comment will most likely be met with approval from anyone else here in regard to the rifles in question.;)

Cheers D
 
Zeroed-In said:
As Stoner99 has stated what are your credentials?




As I find it hard to believe you actually have similar experience to any/all CGN members (as individuals) regarding these rifles in question. Perhaps not everyone as I believe there is at least one member who is working for and was/is involved with the actual manufacturer regarding the development of the C8IUR/MRR...

Saying all that, your final comment will most likely be met with approval from anyone else here in regard to the rifles in question.;)

Cheers D
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I'll cede that. I'm speaking about the ongoing tête-à-tête on this thread.
 
CreamySmooth said:
I mentioned the Oracle as a rifle that will basically do anything a guy needs. They don't fail and are well made. ARs are so common that even the Chinese models will do anything you NEED. Like you said... Like LEGO. Want is different. The 6933 would be anything you'd WANT unless you didn't want to be able to add and change out foreshocks and barrels etc... Then an IUR is your pie.

And of course I put my preference in. Just like every Colt Canada fanboy here did.

Look, im gonna put this out there for guys to think about. The AR is now nothing special in RCMP use. Being qualified to use it from a 1 week course makes you more or less as qualified as every other RCMP member out there. There's no special technical classes, and there's no knowledge transfer about why the gun is better than any other. It's not in the syllabus. In the end it gives you basic knowledge for a weapon type. You may have more interest personally, but no more knowledge is transferred than to the guy or girl who is only there cause he has to be. What's important is when these people, who have had a 1 week course, begin to tell you that thier issued weapon system is the best one. That's living with blinders on. I can say that those who have had the same training, when they have other opinions... Those are usually the more significant opinions. The ones that question, bring far more to the table, than the obedient followers.

Further, to get things out of the way, because I guess people still haven't figured it, I'm as qualified as anyone else here in regard to the rifles in question. I have a big mouth, I agree, and wanting good spirited debate is a love of mine. I will admit to a difficulty in taking someone seriously who probably has only ever chased wildlife through the bush with a weapon system getting high and mighty.

Seriously OP... Get the 6933 or the IUR. Whatever strikes you. You've definitely had the debate to parse.
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The only DPMS made rifle I would have confidence in recommending to someone is the G2 series in 308. The rest is commercial grade, lowest bid parts put together. Even then if LMT/KAC or even Armalite put a G2 based 308 together I would recommend that instead. There are better options out there that are worth it, even if you have to pay more. Buying cheap is a rich man's game as you end up paying a lot more in the end.

I agree that the RCMP course doesn't offer any special technical classes for the carbine. Although they do go over sight picture, break down/cleaning which includes the BCG etc. It's geared towards shooting. If someone was qualified on the RCMP C8IUR they would know a few things such as the edges not being sharp due to ergo ladder covers etc being on the rails. That correct use of the tango down makes steering that carbine pretty quick. They would also know that it was 5 days all day on the range with only a bit of classroom time. It's a hands on range course for the most part. So yes, basic knowledge of the weapon type, but very good training on it's use. It's also a fairly physically taxing course which you can easily fail if the work isn't put in. There are too many things that Creamy smooth has posted that doesn't line up with anyone actually qualified on the course. Either that or there is some dumbed down version of the course going around that was a far cry from what others had to take. Because there is no way anyone knowing AR rifles going into it and coming out would make the arguments that he has made. Then again no one who knows AR rifles and quality would recommend the DPMS Oracle. That's a recommendation that a new guy would make or someone that doesn't really know AR rifles. It's an entry level rifle that is consumer grade. We've all been there at one time, but most of us learned the hard way to just pay a bit more and get quality as it's cheaper in the long run.

For the AR fans out there, I ask you does a carbine with a LMT sopmod stock, ergo grip, ergo ladders, troy rear buis, Aimpoint M4s optic, giessel match trigger, stubby tango down foregrip and Surfire tactical light sound like something the "bureaucrats" came up with as Creamysmooth stated early? Does this sound like a sub par system to you? Lots of you guys know your stuff. Yes many have their own preferences, but can you honestly say that any of those parts, including a Colt Canada base is in any way sub par or not suitable? Is a 5 day all day on the range course put together by ERT which came down from JTF in any way sub par or that of someone putting check boxes on a list for their next promotion? Personally I think they put a lot of effort into the entire package. I give credit where credit is due.

Seriously OP... Get the 6933 or the IUR. Whatever strikes you. You've definitely had the debate to parse.
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Absolutely agree. I will also add in LMT, DD, KAC and there are a number of other well made rifles out there. I would however suggest someone trying to get the carbine configured as close as they can to what they want out of the box. It's usually a lot less expensive if it's all bundled, providing it's the options/parts you want. Also having taken apart a CC BCG and a Colt USA one, I can tell you right now that the Colt Canada, LMT and KAC BCG are made to a higher standard and with tighter tolerances. The gas seal on the Bolt into the carrier group is almost like a vacuum seal with those choices. The Colt USA and many others aren't built to that standard. This was only the most obvious difference. This may or may not be a concern for you, but it's something to consider.
 
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