IRG Colt Le6933 with KAC accessories or colt Canada 11.6mrr

Epoxy7 said:
The only DPMS made rifle I would have confidence in recommending to someone is the G2 series in 308. The rest is commercial grade, lowest bid parts put together. Even then if LMT/KAC or even Armalite put a G2 based 308 together I would recommend that instead. There are better options out there that are worth it, even if you have to pay more. Buying cheap is a rich man's game as you end up paying a lot more in the end. .
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Again, you like to twist the meaning. I suggested the Oracle as a cheap functional rifle. In 99% of people's use, it will shoot fine. I've seen lots shoot, I've never seen one fail. You've hung on a point that is absolutely pointless. But again I opened that up, my fault for going off topic.

Epoxy7 said:
I agree that the RCMP course doesn't offer any special technical classes for the carbine. Although they do go over sight picture, break down/cleaning which includes the BCG etc. It's geared towards shooting. If someone was qualified on the RCMP C8IUR they would know a few things such as the edges not being sharp due to ergo ladder covers etc being on the rails. That correct use of the tango down makes steering that carbine pretty quick. They would also know that it was 5 days all day on the range with only a bit of classroom time. It's a hands on range course for the most part. So yes, basic knowledge of the weapon type, but very good training on it's use. It's also a fairly physically taxing course which you can easily fail if the work isn't put in. There are too many things that Creamy smooth has posted that doesn't line up with anyone actually qualified on the course. Either that or there is some dumbed down version of the course going around that was a far cry from what others had to take. Because there is no way anyone knowing AR rifles going into it and coming out would make the arguments that he has made. Then again no one who knows AR rifles and quality would recommend the DPMS Oracle. That's a recommendation that a new guy would make or someone that doesn't really know AR rifles. It's an entry level rifle that is consumer grade. We've all been there at one time, but most of us learned the hard way to just pay a bit more and get quality as it's cheaper in the long run. .
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Holy crap where does this come from? Your love of all things Federal is mind blowing to me. Several rifles at the start of the rollout didn't have rail covers, why is this a point with you? They were added later or weren't shipped initially, I don't know the exact answer. Were you even working then? I question that! (That's me proving it's easy to take cheap shots) Do you honestly think that adding rail covers takes away bulk and improves handling? The course teaches grip on the fore end of the IUR (which is why the covers were added)... Not on the tango down. Use of it is verboten. Why it's there blew me away actually.... Also the fact that they initially zip tied the damn thing to the rail so you couldn't move it was just weird, but falls in line teaching to the lowest common denominator. Maybe your course was different, but my experience did not inspire me after having taken other private courses.

The course was physical and demanding. This is why it was changed as its meant to put the rifle into the hands of on duty officers as it should have been.... not fail students who most of, had never handled an AR before.. Advanced courses should have been used to teach tactics, like the Pepsi course does. My lord the simple method of charging the rifle should make you question things.... Do you not have any single open minded opinion of your own that you didn't get at the course?????????????? Go ahead, explain it and see if ANYONE here thinks its prudent, along with the entire reloading process. Soldiers think it's ridiculous.... because it shows the bad guy where you are and that you are unloaded.... dumb.

Epoxy7 said:
For the AR fans out there, I ask you does a carbine with a LMT sopmod stock, ergo grip, ergo ladders, troy rear buis, Aimpoint M4s optic, giessel match trigger, stubby tango down foregrip and Surfire tactical light sound like something the "bureaucrats" came up with as Creamysmooth stated early? Does this sound like a sub par system to you? Lots of you guys know your stuff. Yes many have their own preferences, but can you honestly say that any of those parts, including a Colt Canada base is in any way sub par or not suitable? Is a 5 day all day on the range course put together by ERT which came down from JTF in any way sub par or that of someone putting check boxes on a list for their next promotion? Personally I think they put a lot of effort into the entire package. I give credit where credit is due..
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That list of parts any neophyte with 30 minutes on Google could figure out. It's pretty standard "Best Of" stuff, and it probably came from recommendations from Colt. I have never had an issue with any of it. But I look at it differently than you I guess. Having judged grips on pistols and swapped them out for hand size, I recognize the Ergo as too large for many hands. It's a very nice grip if it fits. It doesn't fit all hands. A standard smaller grip would have been better. The Aimpro is a great sight. Your experience I suspect is probably Urban and it works. Everywhere else the RCMP polices is rural. Some kind of low magnification would have been better, as most of the country uses it in different conditions. In fact B.C. is the only place that the Federal force is primarily Urban. That 2 MOA is not optimal in the flatlands or rural areas in the rest of the country. It's really poor in containment, as you have the same view over your pistol sights. And its not designated any type of containment rifle. It's no different than the issue pistol or shotgun, you use it if you have it. Designated containment rifles, which I am familiar with, are issued to individual members and are .308's.


Epoxy7 said:
Absolutely agree. I will also add in LMT, DD, KAC and there are a number of other well made rifles out there. I would however suggest someone trying to get the carbine configured as close as they can to what they want out of the box. It's usually a lot less expensive if it's all bundled, providing it's the options/parts you want. Also having taken apart a CC BCG and a Colt USA one, I can tell you right now that the Colt Canada, LMT and KAC BCG are made to a higher standard and with tighter tolerances. The gas seal on the Bolt into the carrier group is almost like a vacuum seal with those choices. The Colt USA and many others aren't built to that standard. This was only the most obvious difference. This may or may not be a concern for you, but it's something to consider.
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I realized after I mentioned the Oracle that I'd opened up a big new forum for your vast knowledge, and I'm sorry I did. And I don't question your knowledge of anything AR... I had a pile earlier in my life and I admit to having sold most as I had run out of enthusiasm a while ago. But back to the 2 guns the OP asked about, I'll give just that opinion again. If you want a gun you can modify, or change barrels on and make "your own", get the 6933. If you want to mount a Grenade Launcher, as Greentips pointed out, or you like the look of the IUR and want to pay more, get that.

So I don't expect to get any traction, as it's clear who the fan base is. It's also apparent that Blocking only does private messages... I need to seriously get off this thread before I have a jammer with my poor overweight desk driving body.... :rolleyes:
 
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I sold the IUR really fast myself just nothing special IMOP I am sure the quality is high but I have a Armalite with a Sampson rail basically same configuration that shot superior groups using the same optics , I found the IUR functioned more smoothly with my nicol boron BCG so the first this I sold was the CC BCG .

I am all for supporting Canadian however I feel the configurations offered are largely superior as service rifles than personally owned rifles , our family has many Ar's the IUR only lasted 90 days and 6-7 trips to the range .
Shoot as many rifles as you can and buy / build what is best for you don't base purchases on Fads just my 2 cents
Bushy
 
CreamySmooth said:
Again, you like to twist the meaning. I suggested the Oracle as a cheap functional rifle. In 99% of people's use, it will shoot fine. I've seen lots shoot, I've never seen one fail. You've hung on a point that is absolutely pointless. But again I opened that up, my fault for going off topic.



Holy crap where does this come from? Your love of all things Federal is mind blowing to me. Several rifles at the start of the rollout didn't have rail covers, why is this a point with you? They were added later or weren't shipped initially, I don't know the exact answer. Were you even working then? I question that! (That's me proving it's easy to take cheap shots) Do you honestly think that adding rail covers takes away bulk and improves handling? The course teaches grip on the fore end of the IUR (which is why the covers were added)... Not on the tango down. Use of it is verboten. Why it's there blew me away actually.... Also the fact that they initially zip tied the damn thing to the rail so you couldn't move it was just weird, but falls in line teaching to the lowest common denominator. Maybe your course was different, but my experience did not inspire me after having taken other private courses.

The course was physical and demanding. This is why it was changed as its meant to put the rifle into the hands of on duty officers as it should have been.... not fail students who most of, had never handled an AR before.. Advanced courses should have been used to teach tactics, like the Pepsi course does. My lord the simple method of charging the rifle should make you question things.... Do you not have any single open minded opinion of your own that you didn't get at the course?????????????? Go ahead, explain it and see if ANYONE here thinks its prudent, along with the entire reloading process. Soldiers think it's ridiculous.... because it shows the bad guy where you are and that you are unloaded.... dumb.



That list of parts any neophyte with 30 minutes on Google could figure out. It's pretty standard "Best Of" stuff, and it probably came from recommendations from Colt. I have never had an issue with any of it. But I look at it differently than you I guess. Having judged grips on pistols and swapped them out for hand size, I recognize the Ergo as too large for many hands. It's a very nice grip if it fits. It doesn't fit all hands. A standard smaller grip would have been better. The Aimpro is a great sight. Your experience I suspect is probably Urban and it works. Everywhere else the RCMP polices is rural. Some kind of low magnification would have been better, as most of the country uses it in different conditions. In fact B.C. is the only place that the Federal force is primarily Urban. That 2 MOA is not optimal in the flatlands or rural areas in the rest of the country. It's really poor in containment, as you have the same view over your pistol sights. And its not designated any type of containment rifle. It's no different than the issue pistol or shotgun, you use it if you have it. Designated containment rifles, which I am familiar with, are issued to individual members and are .308's.




I realized after I mentioned the Oracle that I'd opened up a big new forum for your vast knowledge, and I'm sorry I did. And I don't question your knowledge of anything AR... I had a pile earlier in my life and I admit to having sold most as I had run out of enthusiasm a while ago. But back to the 2 guns the OP asked about, I'll give just that opinion again. If you want a gun you can modify, or change barrels on and make "your own", get the 6933. If you want to mount a Grenade Launcher, as Greentips pointed out, or you like the look of the IUR and want to pay more, get that.

So I don't expect to get any traction, as it's clear who the fan base is. It's also apparent that Blocking only does private messages... I need to seriously get off this thread before I have a jammer with my poor overweight desk driving body.... :rolleyes:
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I vote the OP get both. One can never have too many firearms :)
 
Mister Donut said:
I vote the OP get both. One can never have too many firearms :)
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Ignore doesn't work when you quote him! :p I stand by what I posted before. I consider it a huge difference to have used one informally on the range, look one over from behind a desk etc vs being qualified on it. I heard this before from guys previously trained on the FN FAL, C7 etc, yet after the course their opinion changed. Although their former work tools still clearly were remembered as favourites.

If I were the OP, I'd look for the best deal with any of the top rifles. C8IUR can be found or put together for a decent price thanks to the $600 blemish uppers, and parts now floating around. Look for sales as well. Lots of 10-15 percent off going on right now. Also look for those over looked gems. The last two LMT mrp (monolithic upper, quick change barrel system etc) I picked up for $1200 or under shipped. Lots of options out there.

Also if anyone finds these rifles too heavy, some dumbells and a weight bench can be picked up for less than a DPMS Oracle. Also better made! The person behind the trigger is the main part of the system. It won't take long and you can permantly get rid of the embarrassing situation of having to admit online that a C8IUR is too heavy. Or those awkward dinner table discussions were Grandpa mentions marching with his garrand, lee Enfields, FN FALs etc after you complained that your C8IUR was too heavy and awkward. We have to look out for each other! ;)
 
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Epoxy7 said:
Ignore doesn't work when you quote him! :p

If I were the OP, I'd look for the best deal with any of the top rifles. C8IUR can be found or put together for a decent price thanks to the $600 blemish uppers, and parts now floating around. Look for sales as well. Lots of 10-15 percent off going on right now. Also look for those over looked gems. The last two LMT mrp (monolithic upper, quick change barrel system etc) I picked up for $1200 or under shipped. Lots of options out there.

Also if anyone finds these rifles too heavy, some dumbells and a weight bench can be picked up for less than a DPMS Oracle. Also better made! The person behind the trigger is the main part of the system. It won't take long and you can permantly get rid of the embarrassing situation of having to admit online that a C8IUR is too heavy. Or those awkward dinner table discussions were Grandpa mentions marching with his garrand, lee Enfields, FN FALs etc after you complained that your C8IUR was too heavy and awkward. We have to look out for each other! ;)
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Lol, IUR too heavy :)

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I used an IUR at the Redneck Three-Gun a few months ago and didn't find it more difficult to manage than my C7 in Service Rifle

https://1.bp.########.com/-ZczZpwu8RDk/V3s3qcLhepI/AAAAAAAAi04/_XY7Lwx5RdgaqeTJ2j8iMfb63CAgQLgGwCKgB/s1600/P7026014.JPG

http://1.bp.########.com/-UD_8byq1F18/VSiucs2NZSI/AAAAAAAAXGU/ftDkuwaGbLA/s1600/014.JPG



....but then again, I'm not exactly a shining example of a good shooter, I did terrible in both events and was not invited back, lol!
 
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Haven't got anything yet when I went to order the colt lg6933 with KAC options it was sold out. So still looking or waiting to see what the cc looks like when it gets released.
 
Is the IUR too heavy? It depends on your perspective I suppose. The original C8 weighed around 5.5 lbs and the IUR is around 7.5 lbs without accessories. Add an LMT Sopmod (extra 6oz), Aimpoint (12oz), vert grip and light and you've got a carbine that weighs almost as much as a FAL or Garand.

Since Gramps was brought up with the gear he'd be carrying in Big One or the Cold War I feel it only fair to make a full comparison. He'd only be carrying web gear, helmet and a small ruck. On my last deployment I had an IR laser and M3X flashlight on my rifle. I was wearing body armour complete with plates. I carried NVGs wether it was day or night, 5L of water, 10mags, grenades (frag and smoke and two radios (Embiter and PRR). My FFO weighed about 60lbs, that didn't even include my ruck.

So in this day and age of ever increasing combat load I'm sensitive to gear that ways more than it has to. What does the IUR bring to the table? Rails and free floating. Both good things but it does it with a fairly hefty weight penalty. You could consider it the cost of adding a rail until you realize there are other rail options that wouldn't even increase the weight or marginally so. I'm not sayin the IUR isn't a good piece of kit but there is a trade off and one could be just as well served by some of the alternatives. For a patrol carbine you could make a case for the C8A1 (5.5lbs), surefire scout and a lightweight optic like Aimpoint Micro for the red dot crowd or for a more general purpose optic a fixed 3x like the ACOG TA33. Would it be better? No, but I'd argue it would be it's equal at a lower weight.
 
Leg said:
Is the IUR too heavy? It depends on your perspective I suppose. The original C8 weighed around 5.5 lbs and the IUR is around 7.5 lbs without accessories. Add an LMT Sopmod (extra 6oz), Aimpoint (12oz), vert grip and light and you've got a carbine that weighs almost as much as a FAL or Garand.

Since Gramps was brought up with the gear he'd be carrying in Big One or the Cold War I feel it only fair to make a full comparison. He'd only be carrying web gear, helmet and a small ruck. On my last deployment I had an IR laser and M3X flashlight on my rifle. I was wearing body armour complete with plates. I carried NVGs wether it was day or night, 5L of water, 10mags, grenades (frag and smoke and two radios (Embiter and PRR). My FFO weighed about 60lbs, that didn't even include my ruck.

So in this day and age of ever increasing combat load I'm sensitive to gear that ways more than it has to. What does the IUR bring to the table? Rails and free floating. Both good things but it does it with a fairly hefty weight penalty. You could consider it the cost of adding a rail until you realize there are other rail options that wouldn't even increase the weight or marginally so. I'm not sayin the IUR isn't a good piece of kit but there is a trade off and one could be just as well served by some of the alternatives. For a patrol carbine you could make a case for the C8A1 (5.5lbs), surefire scout and a lightweight optic like Aimpoint Micro for the red dot crowd or for a more general purpose optic a fixed 3x like the ACOG TA33. Would it be better? No, but I'd argue it would be it's equal at a lower weight.
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If all things are equal then of course lighter is better. Heck I have always maintained that quad rails weren't a great answer due to weight. Contrary to how a certain poster would like to paint my arguments, I have actually always been for a lighter handguard over the quad rails. I was against tactical lights, again for the weight and the lever effect. These days though the weight of the lights etc, is much better. Plus if necessary I can quickly remove it. The monolithic rail helps with free floating, as well as rigidity with the upper which may also contribute to accuracy. Last but not least, it protects that barrel and doesn't have the weak link of the handguard to the receiver connection. I'm willing to take the extra weight for the accuracy, durability and protection of the gear. So like you have stated, do the advantages offset the weight disadvantage? I personally think it does. That is until something better comes around.

Which brings us to the Colt Canada MRR. Will this new version offer all of the advantages without the disadvantages? If it does, then it's a better choice. Will the M-lok system win over the Keymod? Some interesting times we are in right now.
Again, an often overlooked item is how tough is it? For instance there have been issues with the Fortis handguards flexing and touching the gas blocks. Which causes accuracy changes. A much lighter handguard, but nowhere near as tough as the IUR upper.

I personally don't consider the IUR too heavy and for a patrol rifle. I have never heard anyone using them state it was too heavy, with exception to our resident paper tiger of course. I would take the extra weight over a regular non free floated non monolithic upper. But I would definitely take a lighter yet just as tough monolithic upper without the extra rails that I would likely never use anyways.
 
MRR has a near MOA capability. M4 is specified to 6 MOA.
Hammer forged as opposed to button broached barrels.
Monolithic vs two piece upper receiver.
you pay for what you get....
 
Ended up getting the 11.6 MRR from the EE. This thing is as light as a feather. This is my first AR and I'm shooting pretty nice groups in my opinion. Thanks to everyone for their input.
 
Chinatown said:
Ended up getting the 11.6 MRR from the EE. This thing is as light as a feather. This is my first AR and I'm shooting pretty nice groups in my opinion. Thanks to everyone for their input.
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You can't go wrong with that. Excellent choice. A no brainer really.
 
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