Bowhunting protection gun??? Mare's leg, pump 12ga?

Yes, lots of open rifle quarry in the same area. A 12" barrel to most would seem defensive. No firearm seems to me like no spare tire. Hard to charge me while hunting bear with a rifle.


So, on thread title.... 2 ranch hands, a 12" 12ga, and bear spray. I'm not comfortable with only spray where I hunt. YMMV.
 
Wow, the fish and game are a lot different in your neck of the woods. I've spoken with the one who works in the area I hunt in the foot hills and he seemed a lot more laid back, that was at the range and we had a good talk about firearms. I just did 7 days over the course of two trips into the Willmore for elk with my bow and my shortie 870. I didn't run into any fish and wildlife guys, or much of any one except my buddy who was in similar areas. I'm not sure how they are that far west though, never had any interaction with them in the mountains.

I find their powers of seizure to be far to powerful, police state level stuff. I've never personally seen it abused by them, but that doesn't help me agree with it at all.

To answer the OP's question, I always carry a 14" barrelled 870 when I bow hunt. On long marches to hunting spots I keep it slung across my chest with my bow strapped to my pack. When on hunts i keep it slung against my side and bow in hand. For someone to accuse you of hunting with a short barrelled shotgun or a stubby lever gun, I can't even... I'd have to ask them if they're retarded, or if they believe me to be.

Nav check last trip:


Just had an interesting interaction a few days ago with an Alberta Wildlife Officer. I was out with my bow in the bush target shooting with the bow in preparation for archery season and had a ranch hand on my hip, mag loaded up, and holstered. In this area, we were still a little over a week away from the season opener. While on the walk back to my car, a Wildlife officer stepped out of the bush to have a chat. He had concerns about what was on my hip, and I told him, so we walked over to my vehicle where he had me unload it and offer it up for inspection. After some photos were taken of my gear, he informed me that I'm lucky it's not an open season as if it was he would likely be seizing all of my gear.

In his opinion, one cannot carry a firearm while bow hunting. I politely disagreed and said that although that may be true in some provinces with specific regulations and laws to that effect, no such prohibition exists in the Wildlife Act in Alberta. He then admitted to not being an expert in the wildlife act, but a gun would raise suspicion that I was hunting with a gun, and would therefore be cause for him, to seize everything and open an investigation. I explained that I in fact wouldn't mind being under suspicion if that's the price to pay for my own personal protection, and that I'm out there alone in grizzly country, but the reality is, that there would be nothing to charge me with since there is no prohibition in the act. He countered by explaining the he's not trying to say the gun is not justified, just that in his opinion, it shouldn't be with me while bow hunting. We politely agreed to disagree, and we parted ways.

The next day I followed up with a "subject matter expert" in the local Wildlife office on the phone. He confirmed my belief that there is no specific prohibition against carrying a firearm while bow hunting in Alberta, however the explained that each individual officer can in fact, under any suspicion they may have in a particular circumstance, seize firearms etc and open an investigation against a hunter. He suggested that if I insist on carrying it, that is should be unloaded. I explained that that would defeat the purpose of having it for protection from wildlife, and he explained that I in fact, when encountering a threat from wildlife, would have plenty of time to load the ranch hand, and chamber a round if needed. He could not however, point out to me anywhere in the wildlife act where any of this was in writing, and instead suggested that I educate myself on the enforcement section of the Act.
Again, I politely agreed to disagree with his assessment and we ended our phone call.

Just an FYI I guess.. for those out there in the bush this year.
 
The gov. clowns with badges have way too much power. No damn way any of them should be able to tell a man he cannot protect himself from bears with a firearm ... period.

Disgusting.
 
23.3 gr? Plinking loads?�� My Blackhawk likes 25ish�� I would rather a 44 for penetration than a 12ga too. How do you find the recoil? Doest it affect quick repeat shots?
Accurate loads. I started having hard really hard extraction above 24. Recoil is very manageable with the full stock, it can put them down range pretty quick.
 
Does Ontario specifically rule against firearms in bow season?

Yes.

(Bears) Firearms
Big game, including black bears, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). If you are hunting deer or moose at the same time you are hunting black bears, you may only use or carry (on your person, in a vehicle or boat) a firearm of the type permitted for deer or moose, as the case may be, at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU).

(Moose) Firearms
Big game, including moose, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). When hunting moose, you may only use or carry a firearm of the type (rifle, shotgun, bow or muzzle-loading gun) permitted for hunting moose at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU). For example, when hunting moose during a bows-only season, you may use or carry only bow hunting equipment; you may not carry a rifle or shotgun for hunting other species.

(Deer) Firearms
Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). When hunting deer, you may use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU). For example, when hunting deer during a bows-only season, you may use or carry only bow hunting equipment; you may not carry a rifle or shotgun for hunting other species.
 
Yes.

(Bears) Firearms
Big game, including black bears, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). If you are hunting deer or moose at the same time you are hunting black bears, you may only use or carry (on your person, in a vehicle or boat) a firearm of the type permitted for deer or moose, as the case may be, at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU).

(Moose) Firearms
Big game, including moose, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). When hunting moose, you may only use or carry a firearm of the type (rifle, shotgun, bow or muzzle-loading gun) permitted for hunting moose at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU). For example, when hunting moose during a bows-only season, you may use or carry only bow hunting equipment; you may not carry a rifle or shotgun for hunting other species.

(Deer) Firearms
Big game, including deer, may only be hunted with a firearm (this includes bows). When hunting deer, you may use or carry a firearm of the type permitted for hunting deer at that time in that Wildlife Management Unit (WMU). For example, when hunting deer during a bows-only season, you may use or carry only bow hunting equipment; you may not carry a rifle or shotgun for hunting other species.

Thanks.
 
I remember sitting in a gun shop in Cranbrook a few years back listing to the locals comment on how "quiet" the bow only elk season has been......... ;)

Umm, have you ever been to the gun store in Campbell River during the Bow only Elk season?
Two years ago there was a whole lotta ........ going on and the bragging on the radio was louder than the bow twang.
Got pretty silent on the airwaves after that...obviously they never ever hard the old saying loose lips sink ships.
Rob
 
Not sure on the bow season / weapon for protection aspect here in BC.

But, grizzlies have become somewhat of an issue here in the E. Kootenays. By far the weapon of choice for protection is a "defender" pump shotgun. Reality is, because unowhat happens incredibly fast, in a charge one might have time to get off one to three shots. You want to be able to aim and make 'em count. Mare's Legs or shotguns with pistol grips are, IMHO, pretty much useless in such an event. Odds are the average Joe couldn't hit a cardboard box at 25 yards shooting a firearm like that from the hip.

The conventional thinking here is that the first one is a slug, backed up with 00 buckshot. That said, there is a case to be made for 7 1/2 shot, a face full of which would be extremely devastating at close range.

A friend of mine, spent his life in the NWT and a well seasoned outdoors man and hunter, some years ago just out of town here had a griz bust out of the timber line about 30 yards away in what, fortunately, turned to be a bluff charge that stopped at about 20 yards from him. He said he never even got his rifle off his shoulder it happened so fast, and had the charge been in earnest, he would have been done for.

There's a very good and well researched article in the latest Sports Afield on how to handle bear attacks, big griz on the cover, can't miss it. Well worth a read!

60% of black bear attacks are predatory, meaning for food. Rule on these is, if it doesn't turn tail and run, but instead stares you down and then starts to approach, this is aggression - time to get damn serious! And when attacked by a black bear, don't play dead...you fight for your life. Same with a cougar. Grizzes, on the other hand, rarely attack for food, but rather in defense.

Bear spray, in every article I've read, it still regarded as the best defense, as born out by research specifically on the subject.
 
Spray may be quicker depending on carry options, but seriously dependant on wind and not even a bush or leaves in the way. It is a deterrent only, won't STOP anything that doesn't want to. It's a request asking a bear to go away. If a firearm is too slow spray probably will be too. My feeling the utility of beat spray is emphasized in order to discredit firearms ownership and use. My wife would ask the "disadvantaged" intoxicated male outside the mall to leave her alone like I would spray a bear. I would command him, the same way a 44/12ga might do to a bear. I've demonstrated this on people, I would rather not try asking a bear. I would probably use a full length stock. Having watched the video of the student shot in the face and chest with bird shot walk away that won't be my ammo of choice. I'm also not convinced big flat soft 12ga slugs penetrate that well. I would have to review projectile choices in 44.
 
Not sure on the bow season / weapon for protection aspect here in BC.

But, grizzlies have become somewhat of an issue here in the E. Kootenays. By far the weapon of choice for protection is a "defender" pump shotgun. Reality is, because unowhat happens incredibly fast, in a charge one might have time to get off one to three shots. You want to be able to aim and make 'em count. Mare's Legs or shotguns with pistol grips are, IMHO, pretty much useless in such an event. Odds are the average Joe couldn't hit a cardboard box at 25 yards shooting a firearm like that from the hip.

The conventional thinking here is that the first one is a slug, backed up with 00 buckshot. That said, there is a case to be made for 7 1/2 shot, a face full of which would be extremely devastating at close range.

A friend of mine, spent his life in the NWT and a well seasoned outdoors man and hunter, some years ago just out of town here had a griz bust out of the timber line about 30 yards away in what, fortunately, turned to be a bluff charge that stopped at about 20 yards from him. He said he never even got his rifle off his shoulder it happened so fast, and had the charge been in earnest, he would have been done for.

There's a very good and well researched article in the latest Sports Afield on how to handle bear attacks, big griz on the cover, can't miss it. Well worth a read!

60% of black bear attacks are predatory, meaning for food. Rule on these is, if it doesn't turn tail and run, but instead stares you down and then starts to approach, this is aggression - time to get damn serious! And when attacked by a black bear, don't play dead...you fight for your life. Same with a cougar. Grizzes, on the other hand, rarely attack for food, but rather in defense.

Bear spray, in every article I've read, it still regarded as the best defense, as born out by research specifically on the subject.

Leave the 7 1/2 for clays. Slugs are better than buckshot and buckshot should only be used at close range from a modified or similar choked shotgun. Spray may or may not work properly,but it's better than nothing, and waht I would carry if I was bowhunting. BUt guns work better
 
My first experience with a grizzly...and hopefully my last!

Last fall, out hunting in a very familiar spot north of Cranbrook with my son-in-law. First thing he drops me off on an old logging road that goes back about a mile along the hillside below huge logging slashes. Timber on both sides, fairly steep both sides. I've walked this road a hundred times over the last 15 years and taken a couple good mulies off of it.

As I'm getting out of the truck I notice my bear spray laying on the back seat...nah, don't need that here. He heads off with the truck a mile or so to walk another old road.

A hundreds yards into the hike, there's a pile of grizzly crap on the road...but not that fresh. Nothing to worry about here.

Walk to the end, hang around a few minutes, and head back, taking my time. No hurry.

Come around a corner, I hear a loud crack in the timber just down the road. Elk, I'm thinking? See something move on the low side just off the road about 40 yards away. Big and black...? Put the scope on it.

It's a damn grizzly pokin' his head out from behind a tree and staring back at me! Oh, oh!

I back up around the corner slowly and out of his sight. Wait a couple minutes, give it time to exit. Then slowly walk back to see what's happening...

He's now on the road and facing my direction. I'm standing in the middle of the road, I don't wave my hands or do anything threatening.

He looks around, then puts his head down and starts slowly in my direction, doing the male grizzly swagger I've seen on TV nature docs so many times. NOT GOOD!

I back up around the corner until I'm out of its sight, then turn and hustle about another 40 yards up the road to the top of the rise, then scramble up the bank another 10 feet for advantage, turn and wait for what's next. I've decided by now that if it comes around the corner, it's game on.

I quickly use my Motorola radio to call my son-in-law. "Hey, I've got a problem with a bear! Get over here!" All he hears is, " Hey...ssshhhhssssccctttkkkhhh...bear!" He sprints a five minute run back to the truck.

No sign of the griz...yet. Did it leave? Is it circling? Or what? Keeeerist!

Best sound could ever hear right about then is the pickup pretty much burning down the road towards me.

No sign of the bear anywhere. Serious relief, let me tell you!!!

Now...that could have gone sideways in so many ways, I don't even like to think about it...especially if it had been a sow with cubs instead!

In my favor I was able to back away and get out of sight very quickly. I'm convinced that cooled an otherwise potentially very dangerous show down.

The next thing I did right, by everything I've read, is that I did NOT start waving hands and shouting, in other words, appear threatening.

Yes, it gave me some attitude, a show of strength as to who was boss...I gave way, SLOWLY, and that happened to be enough.

This time.

I'm not looking for any excuse to shoot a bear, least of all a grizzly, and have nothing to prove to anyone. It worked out good for both of us.

It had all the potential to turn into the nightmare from hell, and in one helluva hurry at that distance!

A griz can cover 40 yards faster than most people can say it! I might have had time for one shot...hopefully well placed. But that's no small feat when one's life is suddenly on the line. It might have covered half the ground between us before I even knew what was going down.

I should have had my bear spray, and given a choice, I'd have taken a defender shotgun over the .300 WM in my hands in a heartbeat!

Now I find myself somewhat hyper-vigilant when I'm out there. It changes you, believe me!

I read in a recent article that the number one mistake most often made is thinking that it could never happen to you.

I'll second that.

FWIW.
 
Weekend before last we were sitting in the blind watching a salt lick.
Heard some crunching down the hill, which turned out to be momma putting her cub up a tree while she same up to discuss her displeasure with our presence. I put the bow down and picked up my 30-30, when she was 20 yards away huffing and puffing, we started hollering and let her know we were gonna leave as soon as she agreed to te terms of the peace treaty. She eventually retreated over the bank out of sight, but stayed within 30 yards of us, quietly.
To be totally honest, I would have felt FAR more confident with my 870 than an old model 94. I've got a whole bunch more trigger time on the shotgun, and feel a lot better making instinctive shots with it. I'm not going to carry the rifle for protection anymore.

What I'm getting at here, is that whatever you choose to carry for protection, practice, practice, practice. Make sure you are comfortable using it under pressure, and with an emphasis on lead on target.
 
I can't imagine a better bear defense gun than the 30 Carbine ... 5.2 lbs / 36" long ...5 shots as quick as you can pull the trigger.
 
It seems those using the carbine in Korea the US soldiers found the .30 carbine wouldn't penetrate the winter clothes of the chinese. so I would rethink your statement. respectfully.
 
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