Innavedaw...you were saying?
(btw; we're talking about transportation violations, not unlawful possession. try to keep up.)
Taking your new Shadow 2 to the club in Ontario
- Thread starter kidcom
- Start date
Innavedaw...you were saying?
(btw; we're talking about transportation violations, not unlawful possession. try to keep up.)
I somewhat take exception to what your saying about free speech in this thread Bob. The only person being attacked here is me for starting this thread in the first place. As a member of this board, I can post whatever I want as long as it meets and stays withing the guidelines of CGN. That's what I mean about free speech in this situation.
Where in the Firearms Act does it say that it's unlawful to transport a restricted firearm without the registration certificate present?
Most of us carry the reg certs because it's easy, but what the CFO office says over the phone should never be construed as actual law- they will actually tell you that if you ask.
Most of us carry the reg certs because it's easy, but what the CFO office says over the phone should never be construed as actual law- they will actually tell you that if you ask.
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Free Speech only concerns your right to speak freely against the government. You just don't seem to grasp the concept. Beyond speaking freely against the government, free speech does not exist. As a member of this Board you can say whatever the owner allows you to say. Forget what the eules of this Board are. If he decides to erase your post it is gone. Libel someone on this board and you will can get your a$$ sued off. You will quickly find out how free or not your lawyer is, On the other hand you can say anything you want against the Government with a few exceptions and you are good to go. I am sure there are a few lawyers who could chime in and set out the exceptions to what you can say against the government .
Take Care
Bob
It's inarguably a good idea to keep your FRCs near the firearms. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to bring a newly acquired restricted straight to the range. I never know when I'm going to decide to stop for gas, stop for coffee, stop for food, etc so I don't leave any firearms visible or unlocked when I'm transporting. This also helps avoid firearm related questions from police when I get pulled over for my lead right foot, so they don't have probable cause to start investigating anything firearm related anyway. I'm not afraid to deal with an illegal search in court. If they can get a warrant for a search, I likely have bigger problems anyway. I usually try to just avoid hassle.
Now, if you want to get technical...
The quoted section 117.03 (1) of the Criminal Code also ends with the sentence "may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part".
"Part" III consists of sections 84 through 117. Dissecting the relevant parts out of section 91 "Unauthorized possession of firearm" (note there is no CC section titled "authorized possession of firearm", so section 91 is all we have to work with):
91 (1) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm or a non-restricted firearm without being the holder of
(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and
(b) in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.
Exceptions
91 (4) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to
(b) a person who comes into possession of a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a non-restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition by the operation of law and who, within a reasonable period after acquiring possession of it,
(ii) obtains a licence under which the person may possess it and, in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.
As long as you are able to show that you've taken steps to obtain a registration certificate in a reasonable period of time (i.e. you've done your job and you're waiting on the Government to print it and Canada Post to mail it) then you're fine according to the letter of the law. That doesn't mean your shiny new Shadow 2 won't be seized in error, but a simple harassment and emotional distress civil suit (which you can do without a lawyer!) filed against the police would at least result in officer education and sometimes a nice "shhhhhhh" settlement to make you go away. Push that suit in court, make precedent, and we'll love you forever. Whether or not the hassle is worth it is entirely up to you...
Otherwise:
These threads only seem to be concerned with having an FRC during transportation. First, there are no separate provisions for transporting a restricted home from a store vs. to the range vs. to the post office, aside from having the appropriate ATT / ATT conditions. An FRC is not required for trips to the range, but not required for buying/selling related transit. Second, the laws surrounding the need to hold an FRC are not specific to transportation. You can be asked to produce an FRC while a restricted firearm is stored or even in use (however that might arise...). Why that would happen is a topic for another discussion.
Section 66 of the Firearms Act says a registration certificate expires when the holder of the certificate ceases to be the owner of the firearm. Here are a few regular situations that aren't covered by the exception in 91(4) (b) (ii) that we also never hear about being issues over lacking an FRC:
- Say I sell a restricted firearm to someone and we agree it'll be shipped. Once the transfer goes through, I am no longer in possession of a valid FRC for that firearm. [Imagine a scenario where the police end up looking at this newly sold firearm and ask to see an FRC].
- If that firearm isn't seized in that scenario, I would then have to transport it to the post office without a valid FRC. [Imagine another scenario where I'm stopped, the officer discovers the firearm and ask to see an FRC]
In either of those silly scenarios, that firearm can be seized, and I then have 14 days to: contact the buyer, hope they get their new FRC soon, have them mail it to me, then take it in to the police station and get the firearm back. We never hear about this happening.
- Say I buy a restricted firearm from a store, and we agree that I'll pick it up. Once the transfer goes through, they are no longer in possession of a valid FRC for that firearm. [Imagine a scenario where the police end up looking through their inventory and ask to see all their FRCs].
In this even sillier scenario, that firearm can be seized, and I then get a phone call from the owner of the store saying I have 14 days to: receive my new FRC, bring it to the police station and retrieve my firearm. We never hear about this happening.
Now, if you want to get technical...
The quoted section 117.03 (1) of the Criminal Code also ends with the sentence "may seize the firearm, prohibited weapon, restricted weapon, prohibited device or prohibited ammunition unless its possession by the person in the circumstances in which it is found is authorized by any provision of this Part".
"Part" III consists of sections 84 through 117. Dissecting the relevant parts out of section 91 "Unauthorized possession of firearm" (note there is no CC section titled "authorized possession of firearm", so section 91 is all we have to work with):
91 (1) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm or a non-restricted firearm without being the holder of
(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and
(b) in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.
Exceptions
91 (4) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to
(b) a person who comes into possession of a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a non-restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition by the operation of law and who, within a reasonable period after acquiring possession of it,
(ii) obtains a licence under which the person may possess it and, in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.
As long as you are able to show that you've taken steps to obtain a registration certificate in a reasonable period of time (i.e. you've done your job and you're waiting on the Government to print it and Canada Post to mail it) then you're fine according to the letter of the law. That doesn't mean your shiny new Shadow 2 won't be seized in error, but a simple harassment and emotional distress civil suit (which you can do without a lawyer!) filed against the police would at least result in officer education and sometimes a nice "shhhhhhh" settlement to make you go away. Push that suit in court, make precedent, and we'll love you forever. Whether or not the hassle is worth it is entirely up to you...
Otherwise:
These threads only seem to be concerned with having an FRC during transportation. First, there are no separate provisions for transporting a restricted home from a store vs. to the range vs. to the post office, aside from having the appropriate ATT / ATT conditions. An FRC is not required for trips to the range, but not required for buying/selling related transit. Second, the laws surrounding the need to hold an FRC are not specific to transportation. You can be asked to produce an FRC while a restricted firearm is stored or even in use (however that might arise...). Why that would happen is a topic for another discussion.
Section 66 of the Firearms Act says a registration certificate expires when the holder of the certificate ceases to be the owner of the firearm. Here are a few regular situations that aren't covered by the exception in 91(4) (b) (ii) that we also never hear about being issues over lacking an FRC:
- Say I sell a restricted firearm to someone and we agree it'll be shipped. Once the transfer goes through, I am no longer in possession of a valid FRC for that firearm. [Imagine a scenario where the police end up looking at this newly sold firearm and ask to see an FRC].
- If that firearm isn't seized in that scenario, I would then have to transport it to the post office without a valid FRC. [Imagine another scenario where I'm stopped, the officer discovers the firearm and ask to see an FRC]
In either of those silly scenarios, that firearm can be seized, and I then have 14 days to: contact the buyer, hope they get their new FRC soon, have them mail it to me, then take it in to the police station and get the firearm back. We never hear about this happening.
- Say I buy a restricted firearm from a store, and we agree that I'll pick it up. Once the transfer goes through, they are no longer in possession of a valid FRC for that firearm. [Imagine a scenario where the police end up looking through their inventory and ask to see all their FRCs].
In this even sillier scenario, that firearm can be seized, and I then get a phone call from the owner of the store saying I have 14 days to: receive my new FRC, bring it to the police station and retrieve my firearm. We never hear about this happening.
