hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
You got the moose didn't you? So how is that a bullet failure?
My Results with Hornady ELD X bullets. Not Great. Pics.
- Thread starter MustangFrank
- Start date
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Elk went down to a Lapua Naturalis this year. Both shoulders and heart gone.
Moose went down to another Naturalis in a .338 Lup-wa.... Both shoulders.
Buddy's moose went down to a VLD in a .30-06. Heart and lungs gone. Very explosive.
Buck went down to a SST in my smoke pole.
Another big buck from my stand went down to another buddies smokepole this AM (SST). The bucks are in the 165 to 180 range.
It's been a good year. And all those bullets worked beautifully. But optimally, the monos work different and don't do anywhere near the internal damage is my experience. Rough rule for me now is shoulders for monos, heart/lungs for jacketed. And I like both, and there's no doubt they both work.
Moose went down to another Naturalis in a .338 Lup-wa.... Both shoulders.
Buddy's moose went down to a VLD in a .30-06. Heart and lungs gone. Very explosive.
Buck went down to a SST in my smoke pole.
Another big buck from my stand went down to another buddies smokepole this AM (SST). The bucks are in the 165 to 180 range.
It's been a good year. And all those bullets worked beautifully. But optimally, the monos work different and don't do anywhere near the internal damage is my experience. Rough rule for me now is shoulders for monos, heart/lungs for jacketed. And I like both, and there's no doubt they both work.
Did I perhaps see the pictures of those animals by chance???
CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
Maybe. Unless you're a commie basnerd. I don't show anything to commie basnerds.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
No, he's a fascist thug.
That is the nicest thing you've ever said about me!
This looks like excellent terminal bullet performance.
At 80 yards, the velocity would have been about 2750 fps. Note the bullet likely hit some large bones which is why the weight retention was ultimately low, however the damage was more than sufficient to take down the moose. Considering that this bullet will also perform well at long range, I'm impressed.
Btw, that much damaged meat is a sign of good terminal performance, not the opposite. Note to self, be sure to shoot moose in the lungs, not the shoulder.
The advantage of the ELD-X over for example a flat base Nosler partition is, say at 500 meters, that the due to the BC improvement of .626 vs .481, the ELD-X has about 400 ft lbs of additional retained energy at that distance, and less drop/flatter trajectory. See Hornady ballistics calculator to compare various recipes: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator
Its good to see that the ELD performs well at close range too; I had been wondering about that.
At 80 yards, the velocity would have been about 2750 fps. Note the bullet likely hit some large bones which is why the weight retention was ultimately low, however the damage was more than sufficient to take down the moose. Considering that this bullet will also perform well at long range, I'm impressed.
Btw, that much damaged meat is a sign of good terminal performance, not the opposite. Note to self, be sure to shoot moose in the lungs, not the shoulder.
The advantage of the ELD-X over for example a flat base Nosler partition is, say at 500 meters, that the due to the BC improvement of .626 vs .481, the ELD-X has about 400 ft lbs of additional retained energy at that distance, and less drop/flatter trajectory. See Hornady ballistics calculator to compare various recipes: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator
Its good to see that the ELD performs well at close range too; I had been wondering about that.
I've used berger vlds on my last two deer.
First was with a 168 hybrid vld from a 300 wm at 300 yards. Turned heart/lungs to pudding and nicked the spine.
Second was with a 140 gr vld from a 6.5x55 at 60 yards. Turned heart/lungs to pudding. He ran 30 yards.
I don't mind having one hole in the boat if everything inside is liquified. Have had pretty much no meat damage except a little hole in the back strap on the way to the spine.
This year I'm trying nosler accubonds in a 6.5x55 so I'll get to see how 2 holes plays out.
Slightly different bullet but not by much. I got my deer this year with a 178gn A-Max out of my .308. Went through the middle of the rib cage from about 140yds. Half inch hole between the ribs on the near side, nicked the heart, made a mess of the lungs and put a 1 1/2" hole on the way through a rib on the far side. Deer jumped then wobbled about 30 feet or so and fell over to die. I wish I could have recovered the bullet to see what it looked like after that but there was no chance that close to sundown on a foot access quarter.
I would say the bullet in the OP did what it was designed for and expanded. No way of knowing now if the moose would have run or laid down to die after the first shot or not. May have worked out better with a lung shot or it may not have. Ether way, the moose is dead and there's meat going in the freezer.
Good website I've found is http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html They have a lot of info on a lot of bullets based on experiences shooting a lot of animals at all ranges. Nothing has been added about the ELD-X because it's so new but he's a big fan of the A-Max in a lot of cartridges.
I would say the bullet in the OP did what it was designed for and expanded. No way of knowing now if the moose would have run or laid down to die after the first shot or not. May have worked out better with a lung shot or it may not have. Ether way, the moose is dead and there's meat going in the freezer.
Good website I've found is http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html They have a lot of info on a lot of bullets based on experiences shooting a lot of animals at all ranges. Nothing has been added about the ELD-X because it's so new but he's a big fan of the A-Max in a lot of cartridges.
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Thanks for the write up, bullet failure seems to be different for some people. Different angles distance and mediums and you get varying levels of performance.
You hit it and it died mission complete. Not ideal combo of events, I wouldn't purposely hit a moose int he shoulder, the 4-5 I have harvested had one hole in and out and they go 20-30 yards and cough up blood and fall over. And there are better choices for moose bullets IMO.
I'm still wanting to put a high shoulder shot on a WT to see what happens, that will most likely be an accubond as that's what I have loaded up right now, but my all round will probably be the Barnes LRX and I do like the Swift S2's. I like to have an exit on white tails and elk as the blood trail is easier to follow.
You hit it and it died mission complete. Not ideal combo of events, I wouldn't purposely hit a moose int he shoulder, the 4-5 I have harvested had one hole in and out and they go 20-30 yards and cough up blood and fall over. And there are better choices for moose bullets IMO.
I'm still wanting to put a high shoulder shot on a WT to see what happens, that will most likely be an accubond as that's what I have loaded up right now, but my all round will probably be the Barnes LRX and I do like the Swift S2's. I like to have an exit on white tails and elk as the blood trail is easier to follow.
NolanOsborn
Regular
- Location
- British Columbia
Only have one experience with Berger VLD, this August on Stone Sheep. Client took the shot at a 440-445yds, broadside in the lungs with a 140gr VLD (if i remember the weight correctly) out of a 6.5-284. Sheep hit the dirt like it was it clapped out of the sky by Zeus himself. Pinhole entry and complete devastation of the vitals. Total jelly on the inside.
I shot two blacktail deer (130-150lbs) this fall with 150gr Nosler Ballistic tip out of a 300wsm, both at 80yds. Both through the lungs, the larger deer took the bullet through the offside shoulder and it came to rest under the hide. IIRC around 40% weight retention with excessive meat loss, but both deer took instant nose dives.
2 blackbears with GMX have had differing results.. 1st took one through the lungs out of a 308 @ 120yds and ran 100yds, 2nd took one 308 through the front shoulder and out through the lungs at 196yds did a front flip and died on the spot, both 150gr GMX.
2 whitetails: Around 60yd shots 150gr GMX through the lungs ran 50-70yds, 1 Blacktail with the same load @ 90yds took 5 steps and rolled over.
Had a client dump a moose with two rounds in the chest of 180gr Ballistic Silvertip from a 300wsm at 25 paces. No meat loss and the Bull didn't move more than 5 feet. It was dead on its feet after the first but I had told him prior to shoot until it hits the dirt.
Ive neither killed dozens of animals, nor do a profess to be an expert on bullets but I have noticed in my own hunting, and with guiding that similar loads at similar ranges can perform differently. Copper/Mono bullets produce less waste if only because you don't need to trim away meat laced with lead and copper fragments, and when you hit bone #### gets messy.
I shot two blacktail deer (130-150lbs) this fall with 150gr Nosler Ballistic tip out of a 300wsm, both at 80yds. Both through the lungs, the larger deer took the bullet through the offside shoulder and it came to rest under the hide. IIRC around 40% weight retention with excessive meat loss, but both deer took instant nose dives.
2 blackbears with GMX have had differing results.. 1st took one through the lungs out of a 308 @ 120yds and ran 100yds, 2nd took one 308 through the front shoulder and out through the lungs at 196yds did a front flip and died on the spot, both 150gr GMX.
2 whitetails: Around 60yd shots 150gr GMX through the lungs ran 50-70yds, 1 Blacktail with the same load @ 90yds took 5 steps and rolled over.
Had a client dump a moose with two rounds in the chest of 180gr Ballistic Silvertip from a 300wsm at 25 paces. No meat loss and the Bull didn't move more than 5 feet. It was dead on its feet after the first but I had told him prior to shoot until it hits the dirt.
Ive neither killed dozens of animals, nor do a profess to be an expert on bullets but I have noticed in my own hunting, and with guiding that similar loads at similar ranges can perform differently. Copper/Mono bullets produce less waste if only because you don't need to trim away meat laced with lead and copper fragments, and when you hit bone #### gets messy.
