A 22-284 Build....The Baboon Slayer...Done Now With Pics

No, the 240 weatherby, 6-284, 6-06 all put you between 50-60gr payload. I'm thinking about cases with 60-70gr loads. The equivalent overbore class that the 22-284 would fall into.
 
c-fbmi said:
I personally think that manufacturers should publish the rotational requirements of their bullets, instead of saying 1-7 or 1-8 twist. I think their optimum stability in RPM or ### is what they should publish and then we could decide the best twist for our own cartridges and needs.
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Not sure why my abbreviation for revolutions per second was "bleeped", is there some other meaning for ### that I am not aware of?

It just did it again with the lower case acronym as well..............
 
I think they use twist rates instead of rpm because we live in a world where they must design new cartridges with different shoulder heights to prevent ppl from chambering the wrong round. Math is a lost art and common sense isn't so common anymore. Couple months ago I convinced a female Co worker that her tachometer in her car was a compass. If it hit 4 she had to turn around and between 0-3 meant she was going the right way. It wasn't that hard to convince her. Lol. I think the math would be beyond many. I'd like to hope that I'm wrong but...

I did however try an experiment that might have a benefit here I'm not sure. When I read that Hornady vmax bullet tips melted in flight I didn't believe it because of recovered red tips from animals and mostly from snow I decided to try to melt some with a torch. They can melt and I'm not sure what temp it took but I did try shooting some that I generously warmed without melting to badly across a frozen field that had about a 1/2" dusting over frozen crisp layer of snow. I was using a 25/06 and 75 gr Vmax 3550 fps. Normally if I missed the 700 yard steel the snow reveals it and they remain pretty much intact. A long walk and one can trace the impacts and recover the fired bullet and red tips. The ones I basically annealed didn't have the nose section damaged at all. They were perfect hollow points with only rifling marks. No apparent accuracy loss as I often miss with factory bullets as well they both fell into the same range. 8" target at 700 isn't a sure thing for me
Would or could annealing the bullets increase their resistance to tearing themselves apart?
 
amosfella said:
Why not neck down a 26 Nosler?? Or the 375 Ruger?? That would give you the case capacity you're looking for... Or even a WSM case...
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Because 7 mag brass is everywhere. And I have a 7 mag bushing die. I guess I have a 7wsm bushing die as well. I could do either of those pretty easy. 26 nosler and their 4 dollar brass can take a flying f#ck!
 
cdn shooter said:
Because 7 mag brass is everywhere. And I have a 7 mag bushing die. I guess I have a 7wsm bushing die as well. I could do either of those pretty easy. 26 nosler and their 4 dollar brass can take a flying f#ck!
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In Douglas's other thread on new projects a few weeks ago it seems to me he advocated using very common brass for wildcats. Stuff that is so common its almost free. Could also see that starting with belted magnum brass or needing to fireform for AI or Weatherby would be a PITA. Waste of expensive/hard to find, components, time, and barrel life. Either way i could easily see these projects beyond the average guy; equipment and knowledge wise.
 
Okay gents, you're not thinking about this correctly, let me explain.
The goal is not to develop a better bullet to withstand the rotational stress at extreme RPM, the goal is to calculate the rotational stability requirements of a given bullet and then match the barrel twist and velocity to that requirement. Every bullet will have a rotational stability range where it will fly well and maintain it's structural integrity. Which is why TBs statement lacks any logic at all. A 90 gn 22 cal bullet can be stabilized in any twist barrel, provided one can drive it fast enough to attain it's rotational stability rpm range. As I said previously, velocity does not destroy bullets, it is the centrifugal forces of exceeding the rotational limits of the structural integrity of the bullet.
Now, the 90 gn Berger can obviously be stabilized at an rpm below it's structural limits. People do shoot them, and they shoot well at SOME given rpm. All I have to do is peruse loading manuals and Bergers data to see at what twist and velocity this bullet functions normally and then recalculate the twist required for my projected velocity range. However I have done this with the Sierra and have 500 of them, so I think I'll just forge ahead and see if I can't achieve my goals with the Sierras. I'm not here to reinvent the wheel (bullet), so all I have to do is rethink my project and work it around the wheels we already have.

I was unable to get up to my shop and get into my project yesterday as I was "re-tasked/re-prioritized" by the wife and had to go to town, we'll see what today brings, but I have great intentions at this point.
 
Doug, how did you come to choose the 12 twist? I was playing around with twist calculators last night and it seemed like stability moves in very small increments to velocity change. From what I could determine, the point at which rotation stability is met, and bullet construction is not compromised is a very fine balancing act with a chambering like this.

Very interested to see how this plays out.
 
cdn shooter said:
Doug, how did you come to choose the 12 twist? I was playing around with twist calculators last night and it seemed like stability moves in very small increments to velocity change. From what I could determine, the point at which rotation stability is met, and bullet construction is not compromised is a very fine balancing act with a chambering like this.

Very interested to see how this plays out.
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CS......laid that all out in post #36. Actually it is surprising how tolerant most bullets are of a wide range of velocities and rpms. It says a lot for bullet manufacturers. The difficulties come in when working outside normal velocities or extremely long for caliber bullets and then goes exponential when one wants to do both at the same time. Such is the fun of experimenting, sometimes you learn you just can't get there, but you gain other knowledge in the trying. I like to set goals that stretch the envelope to the absolute point of rupture, because I have found that is where the most anomalies tend to show up and the learning curve is at it's steepest. I have had some experienced handloaders call BS when I tell them I have vaporized bullets 30 mtrs out from the muzzle. They obviously have never stretched the envelope. One in fact said I must have a bad batch of bullets and I should return them to the maker, or maybe there was something wrong with my barrel. He just could not conceive the idea that it was possible to over rotate a solid lead and gilding metal projectile to the point of utter destruction.
 
So today I got at the 22-284 project. As Dennis suggested I was able to do everything from one set up. I was thinking of the wrong barrel, this one is just a straight taper heavy varmint. So I set it up in the 4 jaw with about 4" sticking out, cut the shank to size threaded it, cut the Remington countersink and then chambered it. Took longer to chamber than to do everything else. I roughed it out with my 22-250 reamer and then finish cut it with the 22-284 reamer. Really slow going taking out that much material and I used a sh!t load of cutting oil. I much prefer chambering 458s, even 375s are a breeze, but that 22-250 is hard on the hands and the 22-284 reamer is even harder after I ran out of 22-250 chamber.
So anyway tomorrow I shall pull it out and set it up for polishing and then crown it. I will be doing an 11 degree target style crown. Then I intend to glass bead it in my brand new glass bead machine. Not even sure it works, guess I'll find out tomorrow.

I think I shall design a device that goes into the muzzle end and pumps cutting oil through the reamer. It would be very nice to work with a flooded reamer set up and would really help move the cuttings out. If it worked really well, a guy wouldn't have to pull out every 50 thou and clean out the cuttings and re-oil everything.

af..........Nosler brass can indeed be made from RUM brass but let me assure you it is not EASILY done. Way back I tried to make some 7mm Dakota from R-P 300 RUM brass. It takes about 42 steps and 3 annealings and 4 neck turnings with one successful case out of 20 tries.........I exaggerate of course, but let me assure you it is not just run 'er through the die and trim 'er back !!!!!
 
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c-fbmi said:
CS......laid that all out in post #36. Actually it is surprising how tolerant most bullets are of a wide range of velocities and rpms. It says a lot for bullet manufacturers. The difficulties come in when working outside normal velocities or extremely long for caliber bullets and then goes exponential when one wants to do both at the same time. Such is the fun of experimenting, sometimes you learn you just can't get there, but you gain other knowledge in the trying. I like to set goals that stretch the envelope to the absolute point of rupture, because I have found that is where the most anomalies tend to show up and the learning curve is at it's steepest. I have had some experienced handloaders call BS when I tell them I have vaporized bullets 30 mtrs out from the muzzle. They obviously have never stretched the envelope. One in fact said I must have a bad batch of bullets and I should return them to the maker, or maybe there was something wrong with my barrel. He just could not conceive the idea that it was possible to over rotate a solid lead and gilding metal projectile to the point of utter destruction.
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Went back and read it again and understand you found success with the 80 sierra at 230,000 rpm so your trying to just squeak over that line and the 12 twist should optimize velocity.

I think the 90's might not work. From what I know....I can stabilize a 90 at 308,000 rpm and a 10 twist would run 305,000 rpm at 4200 and would still fit inside the sweet spot for the 80gr. We'll soon see what happens but I'm betting 9.5-10 twist is the magic spot for that chambering with heavies.

Look what you've gone and done...now I'm gonna need one of these!

And I must say, Your experimentation, and the sharing of past knowledge is much appreciated.
 
c-fbmi said:
I think I shall design a device that goes into the muzzle end and pumps cutting oil through the reamer. It would be very nice to work with a flooded reamer set up and would really help move the cuttings out. If it worked really well, a guy wouldn't have to pull out every 50 thou and clean out the cuttings and re-oil everything.
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No need to reinvent the wheel. Brownels already sells one of these...
 
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